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+--- Thread: Where are the letters penned by Voynich? (/thread-747.html)
Where are the letters penned by Voynich? - stellar - 12-09-2016
I would love to see any letters written by Wilfrid. I can not find any on the net. If you have any on your hard drive or you know of a web site that contains them, please post them here. I would like to compare his penmanship to the Voynich Manuscript. I would like to look at the spacing in words as-well. There could be a remote possibility Wilfrid forged the Voynich Manuscript, then you would see something similar to the Voynich Manuscript in his writing.
If no one here has never seen or does not have access to his writing then this would only add to the mystic of the Voynich Manuscript.
RE: Where are the letters penned by Voynich? - -JKP- - 13-09-2016
(12-09-2016, 11:52 PM)stellar Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I would love to see any letters written by Wilfrid. I can not find any on the net. If you have any on your hard drive or you know of a web site that contains them, please post them here. I would like to compare his penmanship to the Voynich Manuscript. I would like to look at the spacing in words as-well. There could be a remote possibility Wilfrid forged the Voynich Manuscript, then you would see something similar to the Voynich Manuscript in his writing.
If no one here has never seen or does not have access to his writing then this would only add to the mystic of the Voynich Manuscript.
He was too busy traveling the world, running his business, and locating manuscripts to create a work as long and complex as the VMS. The text is not random, not even close. It's very systematic. It would have taken him months just to work out the system, much less write it. If it were a forgery, he would probably have asked someone else to do it, which means his handwriting wouldn't match.
Good luck in your search, but consider that researchers, some of them professionals, have been studying this manuscript for decades. I don't think a forgery could fool that many people. Whether the text is meaningful is a separate question.
RE: Where are the letters penned by Voynich? - stellar - 13-09-2016
(13-09-2016, 12:22 AM)-JKP- Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.(12-09-2016, 11:52 PM)stellar Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I would love to see any letters written by Wilfrid. I can not find any on the net. If you have any on your hard drive or you know of a web site that contains them, please post them here. I would like to compare his penmanship to the Voynich Manuscript. I would like to look at the spacing in words as-well. There could be a remote possibility Wilfrid forged the Voynich Manuscript, then you would see something similar to the Voynich Manuscript in his writing.
If no one here has never seen or does not have access to his writing then this would only add to the mystic of the Voynich Manuscript.
He was too busy traveling the world, running his business, and locating manuscripts to create a work as long and complex as the VMS. The text is not random, not even close. It's very systematic. It would have taken him months just to work out the system, much less write it. If it were a forgery, he would probably have asked someone else to do it, which means his handwriting wouldn't match.
Good luck in your search, but consider that researchers, some of them professionals, have been studying this manuscript for decades. I don't think a forgery could fool that many people. Whether the text is meaningful is a separate question.
Well I found some signatures with extra writing of his and instantly I see some oddities in his writing. This made me go ahead and publish a site. His signature is strange along with his writing and if you wish to see what I found check into my site.
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
RE: Where are the letters penned by Voynich? - -JKP- - 13-09-2016
(13-09-2016, 07:28 AM)stellar Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.(13-09-2016, 12:22 AM)-JKP- Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.(12-09-2016, 11:52 PM)stellar Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I would love to see any letters written by Wilfrid. I can not find any on the net. If you have any on your hard drive or you know of a web site that contains them, please post them here. I would like to compare his penmanship to the Voynich Manuscript. I would like to look at the spacing in words as-well. There could be a remote possibility Wilfrid forged the Voynich Manuscript, then you would see something similar to the Voynich Manuscript in his writing.
If no one here has never seen or does not have access to his writing then this would only add to the mystic of the Voynich Manuscript.
He was too busy traveling the world, running his business, and locating manuscripts to create a work as long and complex as the VMS. The text is not random, not even close. It's very systematic. It would have taken him months just to work out the system, much less write it. If it were a forgery, he would probably have asked someone else to do it, which means his handwriting wouldn't match.
Good luck in your search, but consider that researchers, some of them professionals, have been studying this manuscript for decades. I don't think a forgery could fool that many people. Whether the text is meaningful is a separate question.
Well I found some signatures with extra writing of his and instantly I see some oddities in his writing. This made me go ahead and publish a site. His signature is strange along with his writing and if you wish to see what I found check into my site.
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
I don't see what's odd in his writing.
Also, the loop you point out can be found in hundreds of thousands of hands, not only medieval but modern, as well. At my school we were taught to write with loops in our capital letters and flourishes/loops were very common in the middle ages.
I'm always interested in new perspectives and theories, but you will need more evidence to make this convincing.
RE: Where are the letters penned by Voynich? - Koen G - 13-09-2016
His writing is very normal for a European of that time. In fact, when I learned to write in school we had to use even more curls and flourishes.
Something like this could be found in every primary school here:
![[Image: DIDPLAL00035.jpg]](http://www.sincfala.be/images/collectie/DIDPLAL00035.jpg)
ps: I write much uglier now
RE: Where are the letters penned by Voynich? - stellar - 13-09-2016
(13-09-2016, 06:16 PM)-JKP- Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I do need more evidence and the fact remains we should be looking for penned materials by Wilfrid Voynich to rule out forgery. I believe an analysis of his writing is needed! I'm sure he wrote many letters just before 1912 and I would love to see them. Again anyone who has material penned by Wilfrid Voynich, please post it here.(13-09-2016, 07:28 AM)stellar Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.(13-09-2016, 12:22 AM)-JKP- Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.(12-09-2016, 11:52 PM)stellar Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I would love to see any letters written by Wilfrid. I can not find any on the net. If you have any on your hard drive or you know of a web site that contains them, please post them here. I would like to compare his penmanship to the Voynich Manuscript. I would like to look at the spacing in words as-well. There could be a remote possibility Wilfrid forged the Voynich Manuscript, then you would see something similar to the Voynich Manuscript in his writing.
If no one here has never seen or does not have access to his writing then this would only add to the mystic of the Voynich Manuscript.
He was too busy traveling the world, running his business, and locating manuscripts to create a work as long and complex as the VMS. The text is not random, not even close. It's very systematic. It would have taken him months just to work out the system, much less write it. If it were a forgery, he would probably have asked someone else to do it, which means his handwriting wouldn't match.
Good luck in your search, but consider that researchers, some of them professionals, have been studying this manuscript for decades. I don't think a forgery could fool that many people. Whether the text is meaningful is a separate question.
Well I found some signatures with extra writing of his and instantly I see some oddities in his writing. This made me go ahead and publish a site. His signature is strange along with his writing and if you wish to see what I found check into my site.
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
I don't see what's odd in his writing.
Also, the loop you point out can be found in hundreds of thousands of hands, not only medieval but modern, as well. At my school we were taught to write with loops in our capital letters and flourishes/loops were very common in the middle ages.
I'm always interested in new perspectives and theories, but you will need more evidence to make this convincing.
RE: Where are the letters penned by Voynich? - Koen G - 13-09-2016
So you espouse one of the most implausible theories without any evidence and need our help to find said evidence?
RE: Where are the letters penned by Voynich? - stellar - 13-09-2016
(13-09-2016, 09:25 PM)Koen Gh. Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.So you espouse one of the most implausible theories without any evidence and need our help to find said evidence?
One can not rule out the possibility of a forgery until an analysis of Wilfrid's penmanship. Yes more material is needed! Yes with the little I have on his signature I see something fishy. Why Yale does not have the writings by Wilfrid is a mystery to me? Don't close the door to this idea Koen.
Just by looking at the downward flow of the voynich glyphs and a comparison of the Voynich letter spacing in his signature already looks promising.
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![[Image: 107v2.jpg?w=840]](https://voynichsignature.files.wordpress.com/2016/09/107v2.jpg?w=840)
RE: Where are the letters penned by Voynich? - don of tallahassee - 14-09-2016
Dear Stellar,
Please join the Voynich-List and ask Rich, the moderator and expert on all things forgery-related, to explain his understanding of the forgery question. I'm sure he will be able to answer all your questions.
Thank you.
Don of Tallahassee
RE: Where are the letters penned by Voynich? - Tisquesusa - 14-09-2016
(13-09-2016, 09:25 PM)Koen Gh. Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.So you espouse one of the most implausible theories without any evidence and need our help to find said evidence?
How did you reach the conclusion "most implausible theory"?
Do you have some data to back that up? Statistics? Chance of forgery is x % and chance of "real medieval undecipherable badly painted manuscript" is y %?
And "without any evidence"?
- Wilfrid the Forgerer had access to books - examples, one of your own ideas - examples from Middle Eastern sources, copying
- There's no history from "1440" to ~1600 (if you take Rudolf II as an owner); 160 years without mentioning this curious mystery?
- There's no incentive to support a fake by Voynich idea; all the forces will be against anyone who mentions this possibility
- Or are referred to pits of the past, where a "searchable" mailing list is "offered". After some searches little came up there and less of objections
- Wifrid the Wizard was aware of the value of (fake) manuscripts
- anyone could have written it and different hands suggest different accomplices
- What is the "evidence" for the reality of a medieval manuscript?
None.
Even for those who trust the "authority" of McClone (what's in the name), involved in more fake "1425-1445 manuscripts"**, that date of the parchment/vellum/skin the whole thang is written on, doesn't say anything about the time of writing.
Apparently a time analysis of the ink and paint was "impossible" (for C14), yet while in a similar forgery, also in possession of the Yippie Yeah Yale library, that concluded it was a fake, not confirmed by the library itself.
Another fake, this time by Voynich, whose name is curiously given to it, would not look good on the CV, right?
Maintain the dream and stay asleep when you say "conspiracies of a grand scale would be impossible" and "don't question the reality of the thing, let us wonder about what it would mean" and be happy.
Those who've studied history have other expertises and will see the forgery.
Enjoy!
** "search the mailing list" - was the hospitable helpful answer by a VMS expert here to me. So do that indeed.