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| 2019 Symposium on Cryptologic History |
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Posted by: doranchak - 15-07-2019, 09:18 PM - Forum: News
- Replies (6)
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The program for this conference has been released:
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There is one Voynich talk:
Quote:Dr. Gregor Damschen - A Fibonacci-Based Lunisolar Calendar in the Voynich Manuscript (Beinecke MS 408, f68r3)
Folio 68r3 of the Voynich Manuscript (Beinecke MS 408) has meaningful content. The numbers of stars of the circle image encode a Fibonacci-based formula which allows to synchronize synodic lunar months and tropical sun years. This presentation will present this explanation in detail, thus proving the manuscript itself is not a hoax.
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| Tim King's et al. translation |
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Posted by: Gioynich - 10-07-2019, 10:47 PM - Forum: Theories & Solutions
- Replies (37)
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Just found this new paper: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
proposing that the Voynich is written in a Vulgar Latin dialect, likely affected by a contemporary Italian dialect.
I haven't had much time to read it thoroughly, but it's one of the first papers I see with a clear methodology and translations that make some sense.
Thoughts?
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| [split] On the validation of Theories |
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Posted by: davidjackson - 02-07-2019, 10:07 AM - Forum: Voynich Talk
- Replies (28)
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The problem, if I may interject into this little discussion, is that whilst there are several interesting probable theories out there, there aren't any ways of proving these theories.
Torsten's theory is fascinating, but unprovable. So is Rugg's, realistically. There are a half dozen more out there. Same for the "it's real" theory, probable but no more provable than Torsten's. Or even SantaColumna's hoax theory.
I'm afraid that picking a camp amongst any of these theories is like Brexit. Ultimately, nobody knows and two "experts" can both hold diametrically opposing views - and both can be right (for a given value of "right"). You just choose the one that "feels right" to you and then you become emotionally involved.
So really, the only option is to be theory agnostic and evaluate all of them with an open mind. Personally, I'm putting all the theories that pass critical evaluation to one side in the hope that something pops up in the future that lends weight to one or the other.
So let's not get too emotionally involved in any theory. At the end of the day, it's all supposed to be a fun intellectual game. Or, in the words of the immortal Dilbert:
![[Image: 2005-02-17voting.gif]](https://shadowdemocracy.files.wordpress.com/2007/11/2005-02-17voting.gif)
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| [split] (lack of) word groups |
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Posted by: -JKP- - 01-07-2019, 12:07 PM - Forum: Analysis of the text
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[Edit by Koen: I split this thread for the discussion of a statement by Gordon Rugg]
I actually agree with some of the statements in the article, even though Rugg and I have different perspectives on the VMS, but this statement:
"Here’s one example. All real languages have regularities in word order. In English, ‘I drink coffee’ is a grammatically accurate sentence but ‘coffee drink I’ isn’t. But the words in the Voynich Manuscript You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. in their order. That reason alone is enough to eliminate all known languages from being candidates..."
... is a rather context-dependent statement. If the VMS is a simple substitution cipher, then maybe this kind of generalization can be made, but I'm pretty sure it isn't.
It isn't even necessarily a cipher.
Even if it is a cipher, it doesn't take much manipulation to obscure underlying sentence structure, and thus the grammar (if there is any).
Plus, it's not necessarily true that there are no regularities in the word order. There are line patterns and paragraph patterns. This doesn't necessarily mean Voynichese is natural language, but it does mean there are regularities of certain kinds throughout the text. It's not random.
So I think we have to be careful about statements like this until we have a better understanding of VMS text.
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| [Merged] Stars identified |
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Posted by: Monica Yokubinas - 27-06-2019, 05:01 PM - Forum: Astrology & Astronomy
- Replies (32)
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These are the stars that i have identified so far on You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
Some of these translations coincide with some very old names for the stars in the constellations. I had to reverse the image so it would match a current star chart that i have.
VM translation = Ahyan or Ain in Hebrew and Arabic and means eye. Ain was the name of the star Epsilon Tauri, the eye of the bull Taurus.
VM translation = Ryaz or Ra’as is the ancient name for Al-Ghul/Algol or Beta Persei the Demon Star.
VM translation = ayang = Al-Janah or the wing is Epsilon Cygni.
VM translation = Achayayaz or Mirzan Al-Jawza, is Sirius. Ach can mean firepot or brother.
VM translation aurig or Auriga is clearly translated as it is.
There one for the white spot of Orion is in the wrong place and I am trying to figure it out. Could be they misused a name for a different part of the constellation. I'll update when complete.
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| Unconventional Methods in Voynich Manuscript Analysis |
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Posted by: Torsten - 26-06-2019, 11:25 PM - Forum: News
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New article about the VMS: "You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view."
The article is open access. The authors use fractal geometry to analyze the VMS alongside the Ernst Hemingway book "The Old Man and the Sea", and the Bible.
The authors conclude:
Quote:Our results indicate, that Voynich manuscript is likely written in some natural language because a) its fractal dimension set it among the Hemingway’s novel The Old Man and the Sea, analyzed in the same way in 120 languages, b) complex network maps, generated from Voynich manuscript is significantly different from complex networks maps based on random texts.
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| Manly's views about the Voynich MS |
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Posted by: ReneZ - 26-06-2019, 10:15 PM - Forum: Analysis of the text
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Nick wrote:
Quote:If anyone has access to articles written by John Matthews Manly about the Voynich I'd be very interested to see them. I suspect that he had a different opinion again, but it would be nice to know either way for sure.
I am aware of three papers:
- The Most Mysterious Manuscript in the World: Did Roger Bacon Write It and Has the Key Been Found? in Harper's Monthly Magazine 143 (1921): pp. 186-97
- Roger Bacon's Cypher Manuscript, American Review of Reviews, LXIV, 1921, pp.105-106
- Roger Bacon and the Voynich MS. Speculum 6, July 1931, pp. 345-391
The second is probably a summary of the first and I don't have it. I have the other two, but suspect so has Nick. The first is a fence-sitting review of Newbold, while the third is a refutation.
More interesting is what Manly thought himself about what the text represents.
There is a note by Anne Nill in the Grolier Library that says:
Quote:Prof. Manly in his letter of March 26, 1920, to W.M.V says:
"I still think there is a possibility that the cipher is less complicated than he [Prof.Newbold] believes, and is largely disguised by the use of nulls. As we are entirely ignorant of the language underlying the cipher, it seems me the only way in which the nulls can be isolated is by comparing the relative frequencies of the symbols on a considerable number of pages. I have as you know, eight sheets. This number is, I think, hardly sufficient for the purpose in question.
It seems that Voynich then sent him more sheets. Also, he had sent a similar letter to Newbold.
The first letter is likely to be preserved in the Beinecke, but I have not seen it.
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| Voynich stars and Persian, Arab, Indian astronomy |
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Posted by: Monica Yokubinas - 25-06-2019, 12:56 PM - Forum: Astrology & Astronomy
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This is not a secure site, Iranian encyclopedia online, Very interesting detailed history of astronomy, and a long read, but thought a few of you might be interested as it talked about how the stars were classed by 3 magnitudes. You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
"Stars. While the term stā/ăr may refer to any of the luminous heavenly bodies, “fixed star” is either stārag ī awiyābānīg (Bundahišn; chap. 2.5, p. 27.6) or axtar; the latter also indicates “constellation” and “zodiacal sign.” Stars were classed physically according to three magnitudes (wuzurgīh); for these and for estimates of the size and velocity of the heavenly bodies, see Bundahišn, chap. 2 in Henning, “Astronomical Chapter.” Two levels were assigned to the stars. The upper level was that of the “stars not subject to mingling.” These fought the tenth battle of the original creation and kept the demons from ascending farther (Bundahišn, chap. 2.9, 6 I, pp. 28.1-10, 71.4-11 ). "
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| Quick Q.: What were the 18 languages Wilfrid supposedly spoke? Sources? |
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Posted by: voynichbombe - 24-06-2019, 05:35 PM - Forum: Voynich Talk
- Replies (8)
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hi All,
while I'm afraid there will be no (easy) answer to this, maaaaybe someone has a clue to another source that is more detailed?
because wikipedia says it. the only source reachable is a book containing a short part about the "life & times" of W.M.V., a narration of Anne Nill about some peculiarities of W.'s use of the english language, and that he claimed "to speak 18 languages, all of them equally badly". yeah, you know.. fishing in the dark here, but if someone can show me some light, thank you.
the other source is probably an obituary in The Times (paywalled), but I guess similarly, ah, dubious.
best
gert
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