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f86v3: A bird and a Mountain. - Printable Version

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f86v3: A bird and a Mountain. - Searcher - 10-02-2018

I see that there is the thread [font=Alegreya, serif]You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. on the voynich.ninja which discusses depiction of this page in the context of Winds, in particular, in the Ptolemaic system. I think that here, in the forum, must be a thread about the page f86v3 to collect all thought about its imagery in different conexts.  [/font]
[font=Alegreya, serif]This post includes observations on different myths containing scenes with birds and mountains, as well a part of my theory.[/font]
During the study I was often surprised with that fact that many myths from different corners of the globe repeat the same stories, sometimes modified, but in the same time, include almost identical details and characters. The issue of my interest is not an exception: most part of myths about the Water of Life or the Water of Immortality includes episodes with a mountain or two mountains and birds, often – an eagle, a dove, a phoenix and a raven. I couldn’t ignore such a detail because of the same motive of the page f86v3 which contain two mountains (or a mountain and a volcano) at the bottom and certain watery or bubbling shapes (not mountains) ejecting likely fumes or mist.
Birds always help to get the living water for gods and people:
  • an eagle and doves brought Ambrosia to Zeus helping him to win his father Cronus;
  • an eagle threw You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. plant to some mountain from heaven or brought it from the mountain to earth;
  • there are You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. about birds (eagles or doves, etc.) which brought the living water flying between two clashing rocks, as no man can do it.
As for the image of a bird (eagle, pelican, or phoenix) on a mountain in alchemy, it has no one exact meaning, since there are too many different details in alchemy which play important role in identification. For example, the white eagle means the White stone or Elixir, phoenix means achievement of successful final of the Great Work – rebirth as the Philosopher’s Stone. In general, birds in alchemy mean volatility, volatile state of the material. According to one alchemical author, «the eagle flies up to the clouds and receives the rays of the sun in his eyes.» The text of the You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.says that the first Hermes built the house at the mountain of the Moon opposite the Sun to observe the level of the Nile’s waters. They say, there was five Hermeses, obviously, this implies his five incarnations.
Alchemical works sometimes mention one mountain (of adepts), it can be a one- or twin-peaked mountain, but often two mountains (Sol and Luna) are mentioned.
The Voynich folio You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. contains two «mountains» and two birds, possibly, eagles, one of them is sitting on the peak of the rock, another is descending from above. Descending bird almost always means the Holy Spirit. I have an impression that the left mountain here is humid or watery, ejectin moisture  in opposition to the right which is, rather, of earth and accepting humidity.


RE: f86v3: A bird and a Mountain. - Searcher - 10-02-2018

I add the Ngaju You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. (Borneo) which also contains scenes with birds (hornbills) and mountains. Of course, it is not a question of relation exactly to the VMs, but the question of the common archetype of myths in different cultures.
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You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view., Hans Schärer


RE: f86v3: A bird and a Mountain. - Paris - 10-02-2018

Hi Searcher,

Eagle, pelican and phenix are very common in alchemical books.

For an eagle on the top of a mountain, I can suggest you this picture from the german alchemist Michael Maïer, Atalanta Fugiens (1617 or 1618).
Epigramma VII
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RE: f86v3: A bird and a Mountain. - -JKP- - 10-02-2018

In Iranian stories with Asian influence, the Simurg (firebird/phoenix) legends are often depicted in steep-mountain landscapes.


RE: f86v3: A bird and a Mountain. - Koen G - 10-02-2018

Additionally, the way these mountains are drawn reminds me of Eastern styles, more so than anything else in the MS.


RE: f86v3: A bird and a Mountain. - Searcher - 10-02-2018

Paris wrote:

Quote:For an eagle on the top of a mountain, I can suggest you this picture from the german alchemist Michael Maïer, Atalanta Fugiens (1617 or 1618).

It is interesting that many of the Emblems of Michael Maier and Johann Mylius (XVII c.)are based on the earlier illustrations from XV c. manuscripts such as the Buch der heiligen dreifaltigkeit and the Aurora consurgens.
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[Image: 087d5df4d02e4deea6c611e5a90b9630--aurora.jpg]


RE: f86v3: A bird and a Mountain. - bi3mw - 14-10-2020

One of the two birds on folio You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. is apparently sitting on its nest. So it could well be the alchemical Phoenix.

Quote:The Phoenix completes this process of soul development. The Phoenix bird builds its nest which at the same time is its funeral pyre, and then setting it alight cremates itself. But it arises anew from the ashes transformed. Here we have captured the alchemists experience of spiritualisation, He has integrated his being so much, that he is no longer dependent upon his physical body as a foundation for his being. He now stands upon the sureness of the spiritual - he has in this sense attained the Philosopher's Stone, the Spiritual core of his being.

source: The Birds in Alchemy by Adam McLean

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RE: f86v3: A bird and a Mountain. - Koen G - 14-10-2020

It would be a very well hidden phoenix without fire though. Unless the other bird signifies some kind of rebirth.


RE: f86v3: A bird and a Mountain. - Linda - 14-10-2020

That is kind of a large leap from bird apparently sitting on nest to could well be the alchemical Phoenix. Lots of birds have been depicted on nests over time without this connection being involved.

At the same time i could see how this could be connected to the Phoenix idea of rebirth, since i think it is talking about the formation of rock/earth, and how it is dynamic and related to water, life, and death. I think the upper bird is upside down, each pic being best seen from the corners, therefore it is falling, not flying. I think the circle goes from top right corner to bottom right, counterclockwise, that we are looking at the same rock formation over time. To me the two birds are eons apart in time, with the nesting bird closer to our time. However it still speaks to rebirth, being that the bird persists through time, ie not all birds died off, this bird is working on the next gen, hinting on more to come. Or perhaps the cycle might be seen to repeat.

So i can accept the idea of the nesting bird representing a Phoenix and all the related connecting ideas.


RE: f86v3: A bird and a Mountain. - bi3mw - 14-10-2020

(14-10-2020, 06:26 PM)Linda Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I think the upper bird is upside down, each pic being best seen from the corners, therefore it is falling, not flying.
That's hard to say, I turned the bird to see the position of the wings better.
   

Basically I like your approach.