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Welcome, Guest You have to register before you can post on our site. Username/Email:    Password    Remember me Search Forums (Advanced Search) Online Users There are currently 602 online users. » 13 Member(s) | 583 Guest(s) Applebot, Baidu, Bing, Facebook, Google, Yandex, Aga Tentakulus, dashstofsk, Gregor, JoJo_Jost, Oscroft, Paris, Phoenix887, Ruby Novacna Latest Threads Why and how the text coul... Forum: Theories & Solutions Last Post: dashstofsk 3 minutes ago » Replies: 368 » Views: 62,294 Assumptions baked into th... Forum: Physical material Last Post: eggyk 38 minutes ago » Replies: 46 » Views: 1,109 I am not convinced by the... Forum: Provenance & history Last Post: JoJo_Jost 2 hours ago » Replies: 55 » Views: 2,622 Voynich's anatomy Forum: Imagery Last Post: JoJo_Jost 3 hours ago » Replies: 117 » Views: 10,780 EVA "qo" in 15th century ... Forum: Analysis of the text Last Post: BessAgritianin 3 hours ago » Replies: 21 » Views: 2,257 [Article] What We Actuall... Forum: Voynich Talk Last Post: bi3mw 6 hours ago » Replies: 6 » Views: 188 Palatino 766 pipes, pools... Forum: Imagery Last Post: Bernd 8 hours ago » Replies: 77 » Views: 16,729 No text, but a visual cod... Forum: Theories & Solutions Last Post: Antonio García Jiménez Yesterday, 07:40 PM » Replies: 1,918 » Views: 1,321,010 Voynich Reconsidered Forum: Theories & Solutions Last Post: dfs346 Yesterday, 05:36 PM » Replies: 153 » Views: 109,628 [split] Aga Tentakulus' L... Forum: Analysis of the text Last Post: nablator Yesterday, 01:50 PM » Replies: 87 » Views: 35,346

yto ailch Posted by: davidjackson - 09-08-2021, 03:57 AM - Forum: Analysis of the text - Replies (5) On You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. there are two vords written on a leaf, half way down the right hand side. Right up against the trimming; it is possible that a glyph might have been trimmed away here. You would expect such an annotation to be one of three things: Scribal instruction (green leaves; smooth edge; out of paint; etc) Plant name Plant characteristic (poisonous leaves;good for nausea; etc) In this post alone I shall refer to these vords as an instruction, to distinguish it from a label or text piece. The reason I call it an instruction is because I think we can discard (2); if this were a name, the two vords would be unlikely to act as they do below. Let us look at the instruction. yto ailch yto appears five times (You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.): f1r: daicthy [line break] yto shol    daicthy yto shol f37v: chocthey [line break] yto chol  chocthey yto chol f67r1: yto daiir    (label?)  yto daiir f67r2: yteoor yto ykor  yteoor yto ykor f69v: chese yto odair  chese yto odair ailch does not appear in the manuscript according to Voynichese.com (however, the instruction in question isn't included in the transcription used there!) What if we separate the suffix ch? ch appears as a suffix You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. in the text. It is unusual as a suffix - it either appears as a difficult word (chfaikch etc) or as a unique / almost-unique vord. IE, lkch You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.; lk You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.. Can ch be a stand-alone word? It appears You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. as a vord. Therefore, I treat ch as another vord and continue. ail likewise You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. (drop the ch), all in the text heavy section at the back: f105r: dor ail cheky f105v: okeed ail kchey f106v: chodar ail dal dar f108r: ar ail odaiin f115v: shor ail chodaiin ch has You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.. Yes I am aware there is an argument for saying that ch by itself is nothing but a pre/suffix that the scribe didn't join up and so the transcriber assumed it was a vord, but we can also postulate that it is a floating modifier (which fits in with its function as a pre/suffix). f68v1: okeey ch ek chekeys f72r3: okar ch ches f76r: fchedy ch sal f100r: cthdaoto ch qeos f108r: qokar ch okeey Now for the fun bit! In theory, if this is an instruction, one vord will be a verb (predicate) and the other will be a noun (subject). I started by assuming that there were two vords - it now appears likely there are three vords. We thus have a noun, verb and modifier (subject, predicate). Given that yto appears in a label on f67r1 and twice at the beginning of a line, and ail always appears in the middle of sentences, we can assume (for a thought experiment) that yto is the noun. Futhermore, the well-know attributes of ch (acting as a common prefix suffix) lends itself to it being a modifier. Noun: yto Verb: ail Adverb: ch Imagine this says something like "leaf paint not" or "plant venomous much" or "Joe ate, dead [now]". But we must leave any attempt at translation to one side for the minute. Already, my assignation of noun, verb and adverb is nothing but supposition and hearsay. QUESTION & NEXT TASK: Are there similar examples of apparent "instructions" (not labels) elsewhere that can be examined in a similar fashion? Although we cannot expect a translation from this approach, if other "instructions" appear to follow the same N_V_A approach, it could be a crib towards identifying possible underlying language families.   The question of concatenation Posted by: Anton - 08-08-2021, 10:13 PM - Forum: Analysis of the text - Replies (3) Suppose that the plain text character sequence P1...Pn maps to the Voynichese character sequence V1...Vm, where n and m are 1 or more. Suppose that, likewise, another plain text sequence P'1...P'x maps to another Voynichese sequence V'1...V'y. Would then one expect P1...PnP'1...P'x map to V1...VmV'1...V'y? Or is there anything in the observable properties of Voynichese that would immediately preclude that?   Are we taking the pictures too literally? Posted by: ekorre - 08-08-2021, 04:06 PM - Forum: Imagery - Replies (14) So I watched this video today: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.  .. And it made me think that some stuff people depicted in the past looked nothing like what they actually look like, it made me wonder if it's similar with the Voynich manuscript... Maybe this has been pointed out in the past but I've never seen anyone talking about it, I'd like to know if anyone has any view on it. Voynich MS - possible authors? Posted by: Ranceps - 07-08-2021, 07:41 AM - Forum: Provenance & history - Replies (7) After reading threads here I couldn't help but to join the "gold rush" here. I have a theory about possible authors of the MS and I didn't found it here so I decided to post it. Excuse my lack of knowledge in this field, I am just another wannabe expert throwing unnecessary opinions, so if you don't have time to spare, skip it. Else if you are open to the new theories and want to help me understand the history of he manuscript, leave some comments and thoughts. In the year 1360 at the imperial court of the Charles IV. among other courtiers, there also lives his personal pharmacist Angelo de Florencia. Angelo is an expert healer and Charles took him to Prague from Florence, Italy. He had established a local apothecary there and also a small garden. Charles liked the small garden so he offered a plot to Angelo (approx. 1ha) in the New Town. The garden was named after him - Hortus Angelus - and had properties of a botanical garden and was the first of its kind in Central Europe. In the garden, Angelo grew vegetables, fruit trees, fragrant and medicinal herbs and ornamental bushes. According to the records, most of the species have never been seen before (species from Asia, for example it's possible that Ginkgos were also planted - so somebody had sources to travel far away) Side note: It is also said that Francesco Petrarca was every now and then visiting the garden, which testifies to its worldliness. After the death of Charles IV. Angelo still held the position of the personal pharmacist for his son, Wenceslas IV. Angelo died in 1408. All of his estates and rights were given to his nephew, Ludovicus de Florentia. Is it possible that the manuscript was written by the two or other people from theirs inner circle? In my opinion, Angelo started writing the manuscript at a time when he was dying to pass on the informations and know-how to his nephew in some coded language that only initiates could read. Ludovicus then expanded the manuscript with further knowledge and experience.  Unfortunately, in the 17th century, Count Špork had Hortus Angelus destroyed and instead built a Celestine monastery there and no paintings of the Hortus Angelus have been preserved, so we can only imagine about how the garden was structured. The garden was placed where todays Czech Post office is now (map You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.). Possible look of the Hortus Angelus (the renaissance geometry was typical for the gardens) Horti Ankelmanniani, early 17th century.  (KLUCKERT, E.: European Garden Design. Könemann Verlagsgesellschaft mbH, Cologne 2000.) In the very manuscript, there are few signs showing the House of Luxembourg presence. For example the known You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. and the nymph holding the cross and ring(f79v) or the globus cruciger and the scepter in the center of the f85r2. I am sure there are more signs, but as I stated above, I am no expert. Sources and more(in czech): You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.   Ruminations on the Voynich Manuscript Posted by: Emma May Smith - 05-08-2021, 06:02 PM - Forum: News - Replies (10) Has anybody else read this article/post: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. I haven't yet had time to read and understand it all, but it appears very thorough.   Deciphering the Voynich manuscript: propositions to unlock research Posted by: lurker - 04-08-2021, 08:32 PM - Forum: News - Replies (6) Deciphering the Voynich manuscript: propositions to unlock research by François Parmentier Link: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. Abstract: Quote:The Voynich Manuscript is a medieval book, whose text has continuously resisted decoding efforts for more than a century. First, propositions are made to insure a good overall quality of research about this manuscript. Next, two common assumptions, correspondingly about the manuscript writing system and the presence of labels, are questioned. As a result, a certain number of irregular forms of letters are pointed out and tentatively explained; and labels are found to be sometimes widespread words or refer to different objects (plants, stars…). Theoretical implications of such empirical findings are discussed, and call into question the validity of natural language hypothesis.   Prescott Currier's notes? Posted by: Emma May Smith - 03-08-2021, 12:01 AM - Forum: Analysis of the text - Replies (1) Given Prescott Currier's influence on the analysis of the Voynich text there's really very little of his research out there. Were the few piece that we have everything he produced, or are there other notes out there waiting to be discovered? Has anybody ever sought out his papers and checked for more writings on the Voynich manuscript?   Gallows as categories, and symbols sets Posted by: Barbrey - 02-08-2021, 01:16 AM - Forum: Analysis of the text - No Replies Is it possible the gallows are coding for symbol sets?  We do have the four repetition sequence on 57v, and I've been trying to match - in context - text glyphs to symbols, but having no luck with the gallows.  Still, often back then they used the same sign for different things, particularly astrological signs.  Some we know, some not.  But we do have five parts to the VMS that correspond somewhat, and I've found the same pattern on the rosettes page. So, just taking the first 3 glyphs, for instance, you have "o", o with a neck (eva-l), and 8.  I mean, just looking at them re the zodiac, o=Aries, o with neck=Taurus, 8=Gemini.  But these are the same symbols used for body parts. O=head, o with neck=neck, 8 =shoulders.  And with plants: o=flower, o with neck stem, 8=leaves.  I'd argue the fourth part is actually talking about the human soul, so you might have o=god/spiritus, o with neck = matter, 8=man.  Also, probably numbers. But the writer, if using this as part of his/her system, would need to distinguish between them.   So o, followed by one type of gallows, might code for Aries and/or simply A. Followed by another, might code for Head, and/or simply H. Followed by a different gallows, might code for Flower and/or simply F Followed by a fourth might code for God/Spiritus, or simply G or S. And by itself, maybe it's just a 1 or 10. It seems to me you could get a full alphanumeric system out of something like this, entropy would work better, etc. C-C would be Pisces, Feet, Roots, etc.  But when referring to the left foot, you might have to stick a gallows in the middle.  Lol. But I'm not really kidding.  It might be something like this, and the gallows carry essential word info but don't translate to anything, except maybe, when on their own, the full system they number - Herbal, Body, Stars, Soul.   I just moved this from another thread.  Emma May commented before I did so that this would mean effectively something like 40 glyphs, and that's right, though some would repeat, and a plant only has six parts, so that's why you would get more of one gallows than another.  She wasn't sure where the writer might have got this idea.  I myself got it from a variety of places he or she would have access to: 1) Zodiac man, where body parts are designated with astrology symbols 2) Picatrix, where the author inserts drawings or symbols of the planets without spelling them out 3) Raymond Llull, with his categories. 4) Raymond Llull, who near the end of one text started just using the first letter. 5) Close reading of the symbols, which often are literal "sphinxes", one part Christian, one Muslim, one Greek, for instance, or plants whose roots don't match. 6) The Rosettes page, which in my schema, acts as an index to the whole text, so I am able, sometimes successfully I think, to match symbol to meaning. 7) Aristotle and...Roger Bacon! Lol! I would so appreciate someone with languages and linguistics to take a look at this.  I don't think it would solve the whole problem, but if it seems to test out, it might open the door a little.   Publishing negative research Posted by: Emma May Smith - 01-08-2021, 09:09 PM - Forum: Voynich Talk - Replies (8) I'm proud to announce that the last two posts on my blog have, more or less, been failures. They prove no hypothesis nor advance our understanding. They even go against some of the things I believed or proposed, or at best leave those questions no nearer to an answer. But publishing them is still important. Showing what we've done helps others by laying out our lines of reasoning, sharing our statistics and observations, and demonstrating that they don't really fit our hypotheses. I encourage everybody to post their failures and be open when lines of enquiry run dead (or totally unproven).   Most certain plant ID's Posted by: Koen G - 01-08-2021, 09:05 PM - Forum: Curated threads - Replies (1) Below is a list of plant identifications that are considered "most certain" by members of the forum, also taking into account previous researchers' lists. The discussion thread is You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.. Like every thread in this subforum, this list is meant to be a dynamic reflection of the discussion thread, so any suggestions for additions, alterations... can be made there. Edited list so far (proposals where there appears to be especially great agreement are in bold): Knapweed You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. Water lily You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. Ricinus (castor oil plant) You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. Viola You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. Cannabis You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. Calendula / Mountain aster You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. Malva You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. (JKP) Knotgrass (Polygonum aviculare) You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. Sedum telephium You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. (JKP) Prunella You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. Oak (but the climbing plant remains unclear) You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. Teasel f43v (right) Cuscuta (JKP) You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. First Previous Next Last