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Welcome, Guest You have to register before you can post on our site. Username/Email:    Password    Remember me Search Forums (Advanced Search) Online Users There are currently 177 online users. » 3 Member(s) | 171 Guest(s) Applebot, Bing, Google, Tessa9 Latest Threads Comparisons with Mexican ... Forum: Imagery Last Post: SiestaGuru 10 hours ago » Replies: 3 » Views: 145 Another solution Forum: News Last Post: Rafal 24-05-2025, 12:54 PM » Replies: 5 » Views: 299 Favorite Plant Tournament... Forum: Voynich Talk Last Post: Koen G 23-05-2025, 06:56 PM » Replies: 1 » Views: 204 Question about unicity di... Forum: Analysis of the text Last Post: oshfdk 23-05-2025, 10:36 AM » Replies: 10 » Views: 416 Getting close to a source... Forum: Imagery Last Post: MarcoP 23-05-2025, 06:36 AM » Replies: 183 » Views: 17,913 Transliteration-related i... Forum: Analysis of the text Last Post: davidd 23-05-2025, 01:51 AM » Replies: 41 » Views: 13,845 Sleeve focus thread Forum: Imagery Last Post: Juan_Sali 22-05-2025, 11:45 PM » Replies: 115 » Views: 57,434 Tainted Grail: The Fall o... Forum: Fiction, Comics, Films & Videos, Games & other Media Last Post: bi3mw 22-05-2025, 09:01 PM » Replies: 0 » Views: 153 Generally about proposed ... Forum: Analysis of the text Last Post: bi3mw 22-05-2025, 03:43 PM » Replies: 46 » Views: 3,601 sorted anagrams Forum: Analysis of the text Last Post: extent_of_foxes 22-05-2025, 01:48 PM » Replies: 2 » Views: 212

Sad news about Stephen Bax Posted by: ReneZ - 11-12-2017, 07:44 AM - Forum: News - Replies (29) You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. My thoughts go to his family.   Browsing 'Aries' Posted by: Diane - 08-12-2017, 08:50 PM - Forum: Imagery - Replies (22) I won't put this into the 'astrological section' because I've not yet seen any reason to think that the Voynich calendar was used for astrological calculations.  In a post dated 22nd. October, 2012, '‘Astrological zodiac’ roundels ~ the hypothesis' I returned to the point that until there is some evidence of the way the series was used, it is an error to describe it as 'astrological'; the best one can say is that it came to be used as a calendar at some time - that is, the time when each figure in the series was inscribed with the name of a month - ten months of the year, with some names appearing twice, each time carefully differentiated in the way the month-name was written. Speaking of the animal which is putatively an 'Aries' I wrote: the picture labelled with what seems to be the equivalent of ‘April’ shows a rough-haired and smooth-haired creature on hilly ground, munching on a bush or small tree. Domestic sheep don’t browse at all –  they graze (i.e. crop grass directly from the ground, not by stripping leaves off trees or bushes). What is more, the goat’s habitat and habit of browsing was inextricably linked to its  Latin etymology (he-goats: caper; cropping bushes: capere; uneven places: capatere aspera – vide Isidore IX) so that these were the associations established by the terms and language which informed daily speech among the learned and the basic education of all the literate in western Christendom. I’ll be quoting the basic texts such as Isidore and the bestiaries on that point. In addition, the curves given the horns here, and omission of the beard is in keeping with classical habit. Compare the jawlines ~ as drawn in a medieval bestiary as against a mosaic from Greco-Roman Antioch. As you might imagine, then, I had a bit of a start on seeing another 'Aries' browsing - this time in stone, on Chartres Cathedral. (west facade, north portal, archivolt). The sheep - or intended sheep - has a long, thick tail, shaggy-looking coat, and rather curiously formed horns. I think it may be a Damara - which is interesting given that we also see a fat-tailed sheep pictured on f.116v. We know a lot more in late 2017 than we did in 2012 about the habits of different sheep-breeds and relative propensity for browsing.  Concerns about global warming and its ancillary impact on such things as climate and thus on available fodder has stimulated a great deal of study in a fairly short time.  Apart from the modern cross-breeds, hybrids and genetically-engineered breeds, the general pattern is that the haired breeds are most inclined to browse.. being nearer their common ancestor with the goat.   The Damara is one such breed. It was earlier found in north Africa and Egypt.  The centuries have seen it pushed further south until recently,  by which time it was to be seen only in Namibia.  The horns' shape varies, but the photo below seems a reasonable comparison for the You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.  The link is to an enlargeable image. oh - and here's a photo showing the Damara tail. As you see it touches the ground, but doesn't have that 'kick' in the tail we see in Indian fat-tailed sheep and on f.116v. In short, I think the 'Aries' in the Voynich calendar may be sheep after all; that they depict another haired breed, probably a fat-tailed sort, more like the variety seen in f.116v.   Fat-tailed sheep of some kind were being raised in medieval Spain, but were not much more widely bred in mainland Europe because they're not suited to areas with high rainfall. I should add that where the Chartres' image is recognisably a sheep, the horns on the Voynich pair seem to me, still, to be those of a goat.  But perhaps other members can correct me on that. Here's the Voynich pair as shown by JKP in his post of March last year.  He calls them 'Green-White Aries'. I'd call them the rough and the smooth myself.   Zodiac signs: rare and unique features Posted by: Koen G - 07-12-2017, 09:41 AM - Forum: Curated threads - Replies (9) Discussion thread: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. In this thread we will gather an overview of all rare and unique features of the VM images compared to other sources. This thread will be updated as new examples are submitted in the discussion thread. I will add one post here for each sign. The philosophy behind this thread is that it should reflect the best knowledge we (on the forum) have so far. For example, if a trait is listed as unique and someone reports an example from another manuscript, it will be moved to "rare". Your remarks are very much appreciated in the discussion thread. When the statement is the result of studying a relatively large corpus of Zodiac cycles, a feature classifies as "rare" when it appears in 5% or less cases. A feature can also classify as "rare" if we only know about a handful of other manuscripts where it appears. The "unique" label is reserved for VM features which have not yet been found in any other Zodiac images from the early 15thc century or before. When a feature is only attested in documents later than the VM, this will be added in the "notes" section. Those features which are not rare enough to be "rare" but still noteworthy may also be listed under "notes". Much of the contents of this thread has been copied from forum members' contributions in the You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view., which is worth a read if you are interested in the VM Zodiac symbols. Many thanks to all members who made this collection of knowledge possible. Pisces - Unique: The mouth of each fish is connected to a star by a line [*] - Rare: The two fish are not connected to each other by a line [*] - Notes: JKP notes that blue Pisces and long-nosed Pisces are relatively uncommon.   What is unique or rare about the VM Zodiac signs? Posted by: Koen G - 07-12-2017, 09:28 AM - Forum: Imagery - Replies (183) This thread is a first effort to test the possibilities of our new "Voynich essentials" subforum. The name "essentials" is not to be taken too literally, it can really be about anything. The most important thing is that threads there will be clear and to the point, offering the user an overview in one click. I hope the way it works will become clear after a while. After posting this thread, I will make a new thread in the "Voynich essentials" subforum. Normally you will not be allowed to post there. All discussion and submissions happen in this thread, of which the "essentials" thread will be a reflection. What am I looking for? One of two types of statements which compare the VM Zodiac signs to other sources. For example: Quote:Taurus Unique:  basket Quote:Gemini Rare:  embracing with crossed arms [image from manuscript where this has been found] [description from manuscript, finder, link to sources...]   Graph Thread Posted by: Koen G - 06-12-2017, 09:26 AM - Forum: Curated threads - Replies (6) All kinds of graphs related to Voynichese will be collected here, when possible accompanied by explanation from the maker.  If you've seen or made an interesting graph which should be included, you can submit it on another subforum. Don't forget to include author and/or original location.   f22v - menorah? Posted by: Koen G - 04-12-2017, 11:19 AM - Forum: Imagery - Replies (26) By coincidence I came across an image which drew my attention: It's from a sarcophagus from Jewish catacombs in Rome. As explained You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view., the imagery is fairly standard pagan four seasons stuff. But the object within the circle is unusual. Generally a portrait of de deceased would be carved here, but this sarcophagus was ordered by a Jew who opted for a menorah instead. The menorah, as it was drawn here, reminded me immediately of a specific Voynich plant: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.   menorah.jpg (Size: 63.69 KB / Downloads: 287) There's the three pairs of branches and the "cup" shape on top. But also the arched pedestal. This example os from You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. (14thC)   base2.jpg (Size: 28.74 KB / Downloads: 288) But there's more. The menorah in this picture and others has been carved to make it look like it's made from a series of beads or other interlocking sections. A similar type of decoration might be alluded to in the lower part of the roots.   beads.jpg (Size: 160.72 KB / Downloads: 280) Any ideas?   f67v2 Double fertilization of flowering plants Posted by: Wladimir D - 03-12-2017, 03:59 PM - Forum: Voynich Talk - No Replies A multiseries film on the decoding of the MV appeared in the network (in Russian). The first series is You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. . Sergei suggests that the text of the manuscript is written in polysynthetic language with words that have predominantly proto-Slavic roots. There is an interesting suggestion that 40 is an analog of the English verb "to". In the twelfth series You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.  Sergei suggests that f67v2 shows the process of double fertilization of flowering plants. The author does not explain the meaning of the pictograms. I see the process in the following sequence. The upper right pictogram shows the process of pollen formation. 3 minutes 01 seconds of the video You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. . The left upper pictogram is the formation of the second male gamete. 9 min 42sec + Left bottom.  Fusion of one male gamete (12 min 12 sec) with a secondary nucleus. The red sector is the secondary core. There is a connection (line) with a secondary core and a lower gamete. The blue sector is the egg. The green semicircle is two male gametes. It seems that the upper "gamete" has a cap. Right bottom. The second male gamete (with a cap) fertilizes the egg, with further division, and the formation of the embryo. 12 min 01sec.  But there is a paradoxical question - who could describe this process in the 15th century, since the process was opened in 1898. PS / Suggestion between upper pictograms Sergei translates - (on the end of sticky liquid, retention) a literary - sticky liquid keeps the pollen on the stigma of the pistil.   [split] What is "a Zodiac" and does it apply to the VM section? Posted by: ReneZ - 30-11-2017, 10:23 AM - Forum: Voynich Talk - Replies (27) VViews wrote: Quote:Is everyone ok with this being referred to as the "Zodiac" section? It seems to be something of a convention to call it that, and everyone immediately understands what part of the Voynich is being referred to, but I know some people don't like calling it that. and Koen: Quote:The term Zodiac section is not without its problems I find it increasingly difficult to take any of this seriously. Could anyone please come up with a definition of 'zodiac', in such a way that one can understand why the zodiac section in the Voynich MS would *not* be a zodiac???   There are 244 people in the "Zodiac" section Posted by: VViews - 29-11-2017, 09:34 AM - Forum: Positions we can agree upon - Replies (5) A count of people in the "Zodiac" section of the Voynich Manuscript (the section featuring central roundels and concentric rings of people which spans across Q10 and Q12). Q10 70v2:29 70v1:15 Q11 71r:15 71v:15 72r1:15 72r2:32 (30 + 2 in the central roundel) 72r3:30 72v1: 30 72v3: 30 72v2: 31 (30 + 1 in the central roundel) Q12 73r:30 73v: 31 (30 + 1 in the central roundel) Total people in the "zodiac" section: 303   There are 234 people in Q13 Posted by: VViews - 29-11-2017, 09:19 AM - Forum: Positions we can agree upon - Replies (4) Hi everyone, continuing the polls about counting things, it's time to move on to people in Q13. A re-post of the count from the original Counting Things thread: 75r: 14 75v: 29 76r: text only 76v: 5 77r: 4 77v: 7 78r: 15 78v: 9 79r: 7 79v: 4 80r: 16 80v: 12 81r: 13 81v: 16 82r: 15 82v: 8 83r: 5 83v: 4 84r: 33 84v: 15 Total: 231 people in Q13. First Previous Next Last