Welcome, Guest |
You have to register before you can post on our site.
|
Online Users |
There are currently 54 online users. » 2 Member(s) | 49 Guest(s) Applebot, Bing, Google, Juan_Sali, obelus
|
Latest Threads |
Yale University Free Disc...
Forum: Voynich Talk
Last Post: asteckley
1 hour ago
» Replies: 15
» Views: 830
|
New Post: "I Do Listen to...
Forum: News
Last Post: proto57
2 hours ago
» Replies: 174
» Views: 8,774
|
Extension to the Currier ...
Forum: Analysis of the text
Last Post: HermesRevived
6 hours ago
» Replies: 5
» Views: 227
|
Paths to Decipherment
Forum: Voynich Talk
Last Post: R. Sale
8 hours ago
» Replies: 12
» Views: 475
|
Book: Solenoid by Mircea ...
Forum: Fiction, Comics, Films & Videos, Games & other Media
Last Post: bi3mw
10 hours ago
» Replies: 2
» Views: 247
|
No text, but a visual cod...
Forum: Analysis of the text
Last Post: Antonio García Jiménez
22-04-2024, 04:59 PM
» Replies: 1,317
» Views: 250,477
|
Medieval Manuscripts with...
Forum: Physical material
Last Post: Aga Tentakulus
22-04-2024, 04:03 PM
» Replies: 8
» Views: 3,990
|
The Takeshi Takahashi tra...
Forum: Analysis of the text
Last Post: nablator
22-04-2024, 02:44 PM
» Replies: 18
» Views: 6,473
|
The Voynich Manuscript, D...
Forum: News
Last Post: Ruby Novacna
22-04-2024, 12:18 PM
» Replies: 19
» Views: 936
|
Middle English as precurs...
Forum: Analysis of the text
Last Post: dfs346
22-04-2024, 10:14 AM
» Replies: 3
» Views: 246
|
|
|
f57v Summation of sequences |
Posted by: R. Sale - 10-04-2018, 10:51 PM - Forum: Voynich Talk
- Replies (2)
|
|
VMs f 57v Summation of sequences
As discussed previously, in the 4 x 17 symbol sequence, the symbol in position five (EVA = ‘v’) has several different potential interpretations. The actual glyph is written as an inverted “V” and therefore is more similar to the Greek letter ‘lambda’ in upper case or to the medieval form of the numeral seven as seen in various places such as Typus Arithmetica. A third interpretation is that it is an inverted representation of the Roman numeral ‘V’ or five, given that it sits in the fifth position. In other words, this is an interpretation that is confirmed (to some extent) by placement or location, not wholly by appearance.
Positional confirmation can also be demonstrated for the first two examples. In the Greek interpretation of lambda in position five, there is also omicron in positions one, which is correctly spaced at the same distance as in the Greek alphabet. Likewise in the system of medieval numerals, the interpretation as the number ‘7’ is the proper distance from the second symbol which is a clear representation of a medieval numeral ‘four.’ Once again visual interpretation / appearance confirmed by positional relationships when compared with known traditions.
These are three well-know sequences of symbols, and it is possible to overlay each of those systems unambiguously onto the VMs sequence with the information presented above. The Roman and medieval sequences are numerical. The Greek alphabet is actually alpha-numeric. (And it has a few quirks to accommodate. The one most relevant here is the insertion of a non-alphabetical symbol, digamma, in the sixth position.)
So, in the Greek numerical sequence, lambda equals thirty. While in the Roman sequence the value of this symbol is five. And the medieval value is seven. And if we go back to omicron, at the beginning, the Greek value is seventy, the Roman value is one and the medieval value is three.
Values in each sequence: (Roman value = symbol position)
Greek 70 60 50 40 30 20 10 9 8 7 6 5 4 3 2 1 < >
Roman 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17
Medieval 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19
Sum: 74 66 58 50 42 34 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36
Now if we subject each sum to numerological reduction:
7 + 4 = 11; 1 + 1 =2
6 + 6 = 12; 1 + 2 = 3
5 + 8 = 13; 1 + 3 = 4
5 + 0 = 5
4 + 2 = 6
3 + 4 = 7
2 + 6 = 8
2 + 7 = 9
2 + 8 = 10; 1 + 0 = 1
2+ 9 = 11; 1 + 1 = 2
3 + 0 = 3
3 + 1 = 4
ETC.
And this continues till we get to the Greek alpha equals one, which (if we include the digamma in position six) gives us a symbol sequence consisting of sixteen symbols where the VMs sequence has seventeen symbols.
When we look at the values for the seventeen symbol, the Roman value is 17, the medieval value is nineteen. The total of these two is thirty-six, and 3 + 6 = 9. Nine is the proper sequential value, so the Greek value can not make any numerical contribution - if the pattern holds true.
The final numerological sequence is simple: 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 1, 2 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9,
What could this be? Does it have a meaning or some use?
If we consider the choice sequences and their arrangement in relation to each other - doesn't this have to be an intentional construction?
|
|
|
[split] Color annotations? |
Posted by: Anton - 05-04-2018, 09:57 AM - Forum: Voynich Talk
- Replies (80)
|
|
Edit KG: I split this thread from one about f29r, but there was no elegant way to do this, hence the somewhat abrupt beginning.
I think this folio has been discussed, must have been lost in the "Coventry incident". I don't remember the details though.
Nice observation of "r", don't remember it from before.
Don't think it stands for "radix", it's pointless to mark a root as a root when everyone plainly sees that it's a root.
|
|
|
[split] recurring word sequences |
Posted by: doranchak - 31-03-2018, 08:04 PM - Forum: Analysis of the text
- Replies (7)
|
|
I am very curious about the general case of sequences of n "vords".
For example, instead of considering only patterns of the type XYXY, consider any sequence ABCD. In other words, consider every combination of 4 vords.
For each combination, compute the expected number of occurrences based on your probability calculations. Then compare to the actual count, and sort the list of combinations in descending order of the difference between actual and expected. Which combinations are unusually repetitive (or unusually non-repetitive, i.e. phobic of specific combinations) and are thus statistically significant compared to random distributions of vords?
I suspect this test might have already been performed - perhaps someone can point me to existing research on this.
|
|
|
word starting [q] must have a valid counterpart word starting [o] |
Posted by: davidjackson - 31-03-2018, 07:51 PM - Forum: Positions we can agree upon
- Replies (26)
|
|
This post in entirely based upon the research of Emma Smith. However I feel that she has identified an important grammatical structure and so post her theory here for community members to discuss. I will leave this thread open for a couple of days before posting the poll so that anyone can run independent statistical analysis to prove or destroy the theory.
Emma suggests :
Quote:words beginning with [q] have two particular relationships. The first is that a word starting [q] must have a valid counterpart word starting [o], and it is not enough for the plain word without either [q] or [o] to exist. Conversely, even if the [o] form exists, that does not mean that the [q] form will.
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
|
|
|
Language of Voynich manuscript. |
Posted by: luiscrassus - 31-03-2018, 02:31 PM - Forum: News
- Replies (17)
|
|
The voynich manuscript is written by an artificial language. Created from roots of phonetic words of latin (70%), french (10%), english (10%) and rest of the words are italian, spanish, portuges, serb, turkish, and hungarian. In fact, we deal with languages of Southern Europe. I really suppose, that the author collected these words in various dock across Italy and his purpose was to create an "international language", something similar to Esperanto.
It is keywods:
aez-wetting/drench, ado-pray, ames-soul, amsla-church/temple, amslo-Mass, amsel-reverend, amors-dead body, amoero-shadovs, amurd-murde, amora-philanderer, amoro-pay, amulo-catfish, amula-mud (green water on drawings), amuro-wall, amer-mercantile, amones-our Lord/God, aldos-blessing/benediction, ales-devil, aquim-water, ano-deranged, apelo-appeal, ares-revenant, ara-altar, aslo-speak, avio-fly, auro-breeze, besf-most beautiful, cielo-heaven, civino-citizen, civo-serf, difi-difficulty, dock-dock, doz-dozen, doga-principle, dox-bath, bathroom, dio-God, datus-allegedly, dimero-pouring, dono-donor, dor-cask/barrel, doro-holy, does-does, eles-lift up, eel-eels, ildo-rebel/illegal, malo-demon, my-my, mones-monk, nox-night, nes-death, (h)eroa-hero (letter H is not written at the beginning of the word), (h)omos-human, (h)umo-people, ores-underworld, oro-sea coast, oquino-(water)well, oqui-(water)spring, oquis-horses, oquim-gale, qeima-woman, quifes-quarter, quira-girl, quit-quit, reses-free/freely, res-rest, vir-man/hero, vira-virago/amazon, viez-young, vif-vife, vim-strong/powerful, vick-wicked, vivi-live, vio-street, vilox-city/village, vidi-cheater/swindler, visa-gravedigger, vod-wood, vodo-wood/forest, vold-world, vos-seduce nymph.
Luis Crassus
|
|
|
Something new in f1r? |
Posted by: Anton - 31-03-2018, 01:34 AM - Forum: Marginalia
- Replies (2)
|
|
Locate the ykal in line 1. Move upwards from k, past the wormhole. Immediately at the upper edge of the folio there's a three letter inscription. The letters are of the size of Voynichese glyphs of the main text, only the lines are thinner. Playing with colour transform suggests they're in the same ink.
The second letter looks like "a", the third - like "h" or "b". The first one is more difficult, maybe "c", but actually it resembles a Voynichese d, or 8 in val8en in f116v.
|
|
|
alternating patterns |
Posted by: MarcoP - 29-03-2018, 05:33 PM - Forum: Analysis of the text
- Replies (31)
|
|
Here I discuss a few patterns of the type X Y X, in which the same word X occurs twice with another word Y occurring between the repetitions of X.
I compare with data from a few European languages, but of course I don't know what these pattern might mean in the VMS and I am not sure the comparisons presented here are significant.
1. Alternating repetition X Y X Z
I considered occurrences of the pattern "X Y X Z" where X,Y and Z are three different words. Basically, I am looking for the same word repeating in alternation with other content.
Examples:
Grief dallied with [nor law nor limit] knows.
Now stole upon [the time the dead] of night
And instances [of infinite of] love
A particular case which I initially excluded are matches of the type "X Y X Y"v (these are discussed below).
I also excluded cases in which Y begins or end with the same character as X, in order to avoid considering cases of X X' X that could be related with X X X (and again with reduplication).
The histograms are based on text samples of about 38,000 words each. Words are sorted by decreasing number of matches to the alternating pattern described above (the red bars). The green bars correspond to the expected number of matches on the basis of word frequencies and considering a totally random order.
These two graphs correspond to Italian (Dante "Divina Commedia") and English (the Genesis in King James' version). In this two samples, the most common word also is the one that most conforms to the pattern: the conjunction "e" / "and". The matches are slightly less than what would be expected with a random order: i.e. the pattern is averagely "avoided", most occurrences of the conjunction do not appear in this configuration.
Examples:
Isaac gave up the ghost [and died and was] gathered unto his people
and he turned himself about from them [and wept and returned] to them again
they lifted up their eyes [and looked and behold] a company of Ishmeelites came
MISC.JPG (Size: 58.21 KB / Downloads: 293)
The following graphs are for two Latin scientific texts: the classical Pliny and the early modern Mattioli. The conjunction "et" is still the most frequent match: this time the matches are more frequent than expected. Please note that Mattioli (but not Pliny) makes use of several words that seem to be almost exclusively used in the XYXZ pattern ("tunc", "nec", "aut" being the most frequent). These roughly correspond to the English "either..or" ("tunc" and "aut") and "neither..nor" ("nec").
"non" behaves like "et", but obviously is less frequent.
The difference between Mattioli and Pliny makes clear that some phenomena are more related to personal style than to language.
LATIN.JPG (Size: 61.19 KB / Downloads: 293)
The graphs are based on the VMS: the whole ms on the left and Quire13 only on the right.
VMS_2.JPG (Size: 75.4 KB / Downloads: 296)
The graph for the whole VMS is very different from those of the other sets. A first difference is that the scale is smaller: the most common word ("daiin") is considerably less frequent than the conjunction in the language I examined. Anyway, absolute frequency apart, "daiin" seems to behave similarly to the conjunction in English and Italian.
What I found particularly interesting and unexpected is that the word that most frequently matches the pattern is not a very frequent word: "qokain". These are the 9 matches included in the graph:
sain ol keeshy qokain dy olshedy You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. aly
qokain sheety qokain dar dar shedy qokar ol dy
qokain olshey qokain dar ol shedy qokedy qokeedy qokar olshedy oldy
sor olky qoty ty tor cheyky totol opchedy qokain sheky qokain ol
ycheeytal checthy qokain qokain checthy qokain ol
pol olor chey qokain shedy qokain olchesy ol r aindar
oraiin sheor qokain cheody qokain otal okaiin olkeeor ar al oldy
qokain sheol qokain chckhey lchedy okar al qotal shedy otain far aiin am
qokaiin cheal tain qokain shey qokain char shcthey qoky chy qokaiin
A possibility is that this word is a You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. similar to the Latin "tunc" / "nec". The occurrences of "qokain" are mostly concentrated in Q13 and Q20, but more in Q13. The corresponding graph highlights that the occurrences of the "alternating pattern" are more than expected even if one considers Q13 only. The possibility that the matches are accidental are limited, because the number of matches is consistently higher than expected: even considering Q13 only, observed occurrences almost double the expected number. Of course it is not possible to be sure that this is just coincidental, but occurrences of the pattern in other languages appear to be meaningful.
It is worth pointing out that the similar word "qotain" has two matches of the pattern, while the other similar word "qokaiin" has a single match.
"qotain" is about 1/4 as frequent as "qokain", so 2 vs 9 matches are consistent.
On the other hand, "qokaiin" is about as frequent as "qokain", so the difference 1 to 9 appears to be significant.
2. Chiasmus X Y Y X
Analysing the "qokain" matches above, I noticed another pattern that we could call "chiasmus":
X Y Y X
An occurrence of this pattern appears in King James (1 Chronicles 29:11):
all that is in the heaven and in the earth [is thine; thine is] the kingdom
In the VMS, I have found these 6 occurrences:
qotcheaiin dchain [cthain daiin daiin cthain] qotaiin
qotchaiin [shor cthol cthol shor] chotchy tchodar
[shol chol chol shol] ctoiin sos odan
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. qokain dar shey lshcthy okar okain ylaiin y
ycheeytal [checthy qokain qokain checthy qokain] ol
[qokol chol qokol qokol chol] cheey or aiin oldal
Three of the occurrences actually form five-words sequences of the form
X Y Y X Y
or
X Y X X Y
3. Word-couple repetition X Y X Y
Finally, I checked the X Y X Y sequences I had initially excluded. I believe this can be seen as a variant of the consecutive repetition of the same word, so its structure is (X Y)(X Y).
I found 6 of these as well.
sair cheain cphol dar You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. daikam
coy choiin sho [s chy s chy] tor ols
qotchor [cheor chey cheor chey] soiin sor daiin
sal shedy qokain shey qoin [ol shey ol shey] qoky qol cheey chl or sheolo
olshees ol sheckhy qokain ol [chedy qol chedy qol] keey [qolchedy] chealy
(in the last example, note that "qol chedy" also appears as "qolchedy")
English examples:
Why, this would make [a man a man] of salt
and when he caught it he let it go again, and after it again, [and over and over] he comes, and up again, catch'd it again
But now her cheek was pale, [and by and by] It flash’d forth fire, as lightning from the sky.
All these patterns appear related to the well-know phenomenon of word repetition, but they are also different because they involve more than a single word-type. They could be the longest structured fragments easily discernible in the ms (five-words sequences in particular) .
|
|
|
Opening of the Voynich Café in Burgos |
Posted by: ReneZ - 27-03-2018, 06:57 AM - Forum: News
- No Replies
|
|
Today, 27 March 2018, will see the official and festive opening of the "Voynich Café" in Burgos, which is connected with the "Museo del Libro" and the "Museo del Cid".
It will also see the launching of the "Voypinch", of which I don't know the ingredients.
As soon as there are photos I will add them here.
|
|
|
|