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| Engineering your own voynich |
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Posted by: byatan - 15-07-2021, 07:45 AM - Forum: Voynich Talk
- Replies (120)
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How simple is it to engineer and then have reverse engineered a modern superficial voynich imitation? Let's see.
The imitation should probably use methods which 1) are plausible for the period, and 2) compatible with the ms.
To start, I have enciphered some English text in a way that the ciphertext could appear superficially similar to voynichese. The process used is deterministic, reversible, and with unoptimized parameters. Lots of mistakes must have been made.
What does it say in English?
FaiT Kzz nmnuy maig qar Tiooiea bar nmaei Tmz qooiea Tiaeean bar nmaei Teib Tiiiiz Tieir Kimb mvg Kaiin Fvg Tiiig Kieiiea kiin Fmq Fiiiiz mayun Taiyun qiiiaT mmq TIeig faaig Fiaean Kaaeaei Faiyun Foonuy Tiavinn Tiaeaei Tiiiig FaiT Kzz KaEg qiimiea mool mail maiiea Tiiiig Kiiag Kieiiea fieeean Tiig Kaiiea naaiben ner naek qeK niinuy mmiea TIayun nat Fooix famean fvT Kiiiyun Kaaaouy miig mmn tauYnh Fioog KaeiT kiaq meaei Tiavinn Tienuy Faiyun Foog fiin FvT Tiaaouy qayun Tiaean Kamean Fiin Faaei mael Fir Tian Fooyun Fiiiyun Faiyun FooT fiiir Tian Fooyun Fiiiyun Tiooz fieik faoob Kaeyun mmr teaei Tiaeean Fml mmq Fiaq meaei Tiavinn Tiiin Fooiea Tiaeean bar nmaei Teib miiiz fiiig Kaiin Faq Fmyun Kier mvr faaiaei Fmyun Taeaei Kamg Tieeg Faiyun nat Fooinuy mail Tiiiig qeK niinuy naeyun naz miiit Fooiouy Kianuy Kaiin Feig maaean TiiuYnh faoyun nanuy qiieiyun Fzl Fiag fiinuy faaiz Kaayun faob mmn Taig Kaayun Tieaei Keiyun nmyun naaean Fiig fiaean mvq qiimn maiK Fil meq qiiipen Kieaei Kiin Feez Kimz Kaal faainuy Fmean Fiit Fooiq Teiyun KaiT Kaiiean Tmpen Tial Taiz faaz fimg mail faaiiea Tiiiig Kieig TiiiT fiiinuy Tiiiiz Tieeg Kiar nmaei Kal kaeean Fmr nzg Kaeiz Kayun naean Fmg TaaT fiiinuy Timyun Taeaei nmnuy Tiaet fiaeben mail TIeig Tiiiig Fiiiz miinuy Fiiyun TaiK Kaab Fiviea qiial mooiyun nayun Kimaei KazT TiiiT fiiinuy Timyun Taeaei Tiaenuy TImr Feinuy kaaq qooil Fmean qiiiayun mzg Kaeiz Ka
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| only for wizards and witches here |
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Posted by: Pythagoras - 14-07-2021, 07:36 AM - Forum: Voynich Talk
- Replies (4)
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perhaps only wizards and or witches are supposed to read this document.
for brute force can harm, but the force of language can disarm even the brutest brute.
and magical knowledge can be kept within secured.
and prevent the Golem from being unleashed.
so it might be a source of inductance into the teachings of wizardry and witchery?
only for those into esoteric teachings.
should we attempt to read it then? if we are but mere scholars?
or let the past lay with the wizards and witches of old?
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| Topic Modeling in the Voynich Manuscript |
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Posted by: Torsten - 08-07-2021, 09:52 PM - Forum: News
- Replies (18)
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There is a new paper published about the VMS: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
The Authors of the You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. are Rachel Sterneck, Annie Polish and Claire Bowern.
[font=Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]The abstract says:[/font]
[font=Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]Quote:This article presents the results of investigations using topic modeling of the Voynich Manuscript (Beinecke MS408). Topic modeling is a set of computational methods which are used to identify clusters of subjects within text. We use latent dirichlet allocation, latent semantic analysis, and nonnegative matrix factorization to cluster Voynich pages into `topics'. We then compare the topics derived from the computational models to clusters derived from the Voynich illustrations and from paleographic analysis. We find that computationally derived clusters match closely to a conjunction of scribe and subject matter (as per the illustrations), providing further evidence that the Voynich Manuscript contains meaningful text.
[/font]
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| Is the Voynich illegible? |
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Posted by: Mark Knowles - 06-07-2021, 01:37 AM - Forum: Voynich Talk
- Replies (24)
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I find it very difficult to read the faded smudged and often faint text. How can we possibly decipher the text of the Voynich when it is so hard to read in the first place?
Now in an ideal world we would have access to even higher resolution scans of the manuscript which might make it easier to determine what is written. However it seems very unlikely that there will be significantly higher resolution scans available any time soon. Frankly scans going down to a molecular level of resolution would not seem completely ridiculous.
Determining the precise pen motion corresponding to the blotchy characters is hard at the moment.
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| Heraldic Symbolism in the VMs |
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Posted by: R. Sale - 28-06-2021, 10:20 PM - Forum: Voynich Talk
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I would like to propose a list of examples where heraldry is used in the VMs.
* The nebuly line as found in the VMs cosmos. A nebuly line can be a cloud band. A cloud band can be a cosmic boundary.
Heraldry provides the name (etymology), definition and structure of the nebuly line.
* Heraldic ordinaries, sub-ordinaries, and furs placed as tub patterns on VMs Pisces and Aries pages.
Various examples.
* Red hats and blue stripes. Two for one. Both are heraldic and the combination is historically significant.
* Red, white and green hats of the Zodiac nymphs match with the religious use in ecclesiastical heraldry.
* On the White Aries page, both of the relevant characters, nymphs, are found in the heraldically favored upper right quadrant of the illustration - from the heraldic perspective - from behind the shield.
* An obscure heraldic fur, carefully placed on the two pages immediately preceding White Aries, corresponding in both quadrant and in sphere with the two blue-striped patterns on White Aries, then sets up the possibility for a religious and historical, heraldic canting, if and only if the 'proper', historical and traditional name and description can be recovered for each.
* Melusine isn't exactly heraldic, but she was considered ancestral, and that's close.
* The Golden Fleece is honorific - a symbol of royal exclusivity - more similar to heraldry that to astronomy or alchemy for sure.
Not only do these examples demonstrate the value of the 'proper' interpretation of heraldic symbolism. In combination with with other investigations (the cosmos) and other evidence (C-14), the set of historical correlations starts to take its own form. Additionally, the manner in which these and other examples have been presented reveals something about the source. There is a sophistication, a level of depiction that is more than subtle. On White Aries it is duplicitous. There are two choices.
These examples demonstrate the importance of heraldic interpretation. What other area of investigation can say as much?
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| Rosettes foldout: cardinal directions? |
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Posted by: Koen G - 28-06-2021, 08:36 PM - Forum: Imagery
- Replies (66)
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This thread is for specifically discussing the cardinal directions in the rosettes foldout.
Among those people who believe the cardinal directions are indicated, there seems to be an agreement that they are on the diagonals, so in the corners (correct me if I'm wrong). Since there are four smaller items in the corners, it is possible that these indicate the directions. Two opposite items are suns, which probably indicate east and west, since this is where the sun rises and sets, and the sun does not appear in the north. These ideas have been around for a while (I've seen an older forum discussion between Diane and Searcher who agreed on the directions) and they seem sensible to me. So the following would - again, correct me if I'm wrong - not be extremely controversial:
Both Searcher and Diane placed north at the top right though, which is where I disagree. There are forms of the sky in many if not all the rosettes, so the mere presence of a sky cannot be an indication of north. The spiral, too, would be a strange way of representing the north pole, since the heavens turn like a wheel, they don't spiral inward (unless you fancy a black hole or something).
A lobed shape in the sky (as seen in the bottom left rosette) to represent the celestial pole is more common than a spiral.
![[Image: attachment.php?aid=1629]](https://www.voynich.ninja/attachment.php?aid=1629)
[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Men observing the stars, from Bartholomaeus Anglicus' De Proprietatibus rerum, Italy (Mantua), c. 1300-1310, You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view., f. 108v[/font]
[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]As far as I know, the emblem of this rosette is not yet understood, but it seems to point towards the general sphere of constellations/navigation. Inside is something like a constellation symbol, and the circle has eight subdivisions like a compass rose.[/font]
[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]
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[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Therefore I would say this is north, and continuing clockwise east, south and west.[/font]
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![[Image: w3ezrpml77871.jpg?width=640&crop=smart&a...c9cc103138]](https://preview.redd.it/w3ezrpml77871.jpg?width=640&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=5bf168bfd70e189fba14ad3890fa33c9cc103138)