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+--- Thread: Vessel linework (/thread-3126.html)
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Vessel linework - Koen G - 11-03-2020
I was too tired to do any actual research this evening, so I decided to try and trace the pen lines of some of the small-plants vessels in Photoshop. Keep in mind that in some areas this is an interpretation. The lines are really ruined by the horrendous paint job, and in some areas your best bet is to kind of guess what's going on under the green and (especially) blue layers. I think decorative details in some sections are entirely obscured. Someone else doing a similar exercise might get some details differently.
What I noticed is:
- In these containers, not only the shapes but also the decorative patterns are variable. One vessel is even adorned with some kind of curly, question mark-like shapes I hadn't noticed as such before.
- The drawings are a bit more well-made than I gave them credit for.
- At least one of the containers is certainly placed on a pillar-like pedestal.
I'll probably do some more later.
RE: Vessel linework - davidjackson - 12-03-2020
The base of that one on the left is weird. Where would a 15th century person hace seen something like that?
RE: Vessel linework - Koen G - 12-03-2020
The one on the left is in a faded area, unfortunately. This is the area where I had to guess the most. Still its overall looks are like this. Where would anyone have seen something like that?
RE: Vessel linework - bi3mw - 12-03-2020
Does the scaling correspond approximately to the size of the originals ( 1:1) ?
RE: Vessel linework - Koen G - 12-03-2020
They are at the same scale compared to each other, which is interesting to see how the one on the right corresponds to the same size as the other ones but placed on a pedestal.
I don't quite know how to make them correspond to the actual size of the MS, especially since screen size depends on resolution?
David, what does your facsimile say about the size of these things?
RE: Vessel linework - voynichbombe - 12-03-2020
Re faded areas, I read into this (again) recently. There is something you can try in photoshop or the like, without special equipment and direct access. I found it here (first topic): You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
"The processing method used was to highly stretch the contrast of the difference between the red and green separations of the colour image. The difference image had a lower dynamic range than either of the two individual images and was centered roughly around zero. A Gaussian function was fit to the histogram by measuring the mean and standard deviation of the image. The difference data was then linearly stretched to black and white from ±3 standard deviations around the mean, clipping any values outside of that region. A blueyellow colour map was used display the final result."
I think this was done using the matlab software, but I don't see a reason why it could not be accomplished with gimp or photoshop - with a little bit of fiddeling. As it seems, we could have a lot of time at our disposal in the near future.
RE: Vessel linework - Koen G - 12-03-2020
Expanded family
They are all kept at the same relative size (my jpg files, shrank to 35%).
Looking like this, I really think the one on the right is a small pot on a pillar.
RE: Vessel linework - Hezzer - 14-03-2020
(12-03-2020, 09:38 AM)Koen G Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.The one on the left is in a faded area, unfortunately. This is the area where I had to guess the most. Still its overall looks are like this. Where would anyone have seen something like that?Is it possible they were inspired by their own artwork of plants, likely the roots? It's the base of the cylinder after all. Edit: Albeit, none of the others look very much like a plant part. I spotted one or two with a mild resemblance.
RE: Vessel linework - Koen G - 14-03-2020
Hmm, I don't know.. It looks to me like they were trying to imitate something (an actual object or a different drawing) but perhaps due to the small size and the limitations of pens and parchment surface it came out awkward.
Here's a few examples, the original of the one we're talking about is in the bottom:
There are plenty of examples with feet or some texture at the bottom, but none are as awkward as this one.
My best guess is that maybe they were trying to draw ornamental lion paws, as you often see in furniture, but then exaggerated the claw parts.
RE: Vessel linework - MarcoP - 14-03-2020
These jars are among the most fascinating illustrations in the whole manuscript... We mentioned several partial parallels for a few features, but we still have to find something really convincing, in my opionion.
Various foot-shapes where discussed in the thread about "The containers in the Pharma section". For instance:
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. the attachment seems to be missing. I attach the detail again (f.26r of the "mnemonic bible" Wetmore MS1, Germany, late XV Century, originally pointed out by VViews).
JKP pointed out You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. in yet another thread.