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| In the hypothesis that the VM is a medical compendium, what is each section? |
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Posted by: Koen G - 21-06-2021, 09:42 PM - Forum: Imagery
- Replies (30)
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In the scenario where the VM is (or pretends to be) a medical compendium, what is each section's function? At both ends of the known history of humanity's interpretation of the manuscript, from B(aresch) to Z(andbergen), medicine in the broadest sense of the word plays an important role. So let us assume for this thread that the VM is indeed, or at least explicitly drew inspiration from, a collection of imagery from the medical sphere. Then what is each section supposed to represent at first glance?
- Large plants, this seems obvious: a herbal manuscript.
- Astro diagrams: I'm not sure, probably medical astrology? Other forum members must know more about this.
- Zodiac section: I have seen various ideas here; something related to women's health, or a calendar of good and bad days to take a bath?
- Q13a: f77 is the one where people see internal organs. But what about folios 76, 77, 79, 80, 82, 83? I have no idea.
- Q13b: therapeutic bathing (like Balneis)
- Three 4-way diagrams on rosettes recto: I don' know.
- Rosettes: I don't know, what could this be in a medical context? Or should we broaden the scope and include things like mappa mundi? But even then the 9-circle layout is weird, isn't it?
- Small plants: pharmaceutical jars and ingredients.
- Q20: this isn't imagery, but it seems structured like recipes (either for remedies or for food).
Again, this is about the general impression, without getting lost in details. What is the whole section supposed to look like?
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| Some comments upon the construction of the circles of the Rosettes |
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Posted by: davidjackson - 18-06-2021, 08:45 PM - Forum: Imagery
- Replies (5)
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Although it has always been "known" that the scribe(s) used mechanical aids to draw the circles in the VM, I thought I'd spend some time with a pair of compasses to prove this, at least on the Rosettes page.
They have all been drawn with a pair of compasses. In some cases the centre of the circle is a prominent feature of the imagery; in other cases it is not. In some cases the circle is properly drawn, in others the scribe has messed it up a bit.
I go through the circles one by one, from top left to bottom right. In all cases I have measured the inner circle of the line of text.
![[Image: image.jpg?ref=f86_ins_ros&q=f86_ins_ros-252-166-500-434]](https://voynich.ninja/extractor/image.jpg?ref=f86_ins_ros&q=f86_ins_ros-252-166-500-434)
Top left: This is 9.3 cm wide. There is no real centre to the image.
![[Image: image.jpg?ref=f86_ins_ros&q=f86_ins_ros-917-115-406-434]](https://voynich.ninja/extractor/image.jpg?ref=f86_ins_ros&q=f86_ins_ros-917-115-406-434)
Top middle: This is 9.3cm wide. The centre of the image is the centre of the circle.
![[Image: image.jpg?ref=f86_ins_ros&q=f86_ins_ros-1480-76-400-475]](https://voynich.ninja/extractor/image.jpg?ref=f86_ins_ros&q=f86_ins_ros-1480-76-400-475)
Top right: This is 9.3cm wide. The centre of the image is slightly off centre to the circle.
![[Image: image.jpg?ref=f86_ins_ros&q=f86_ins_ros-280-693-426-435]](https://voynich.ninja/extractor/image.jpg?ref=f86_ins_ros&q=f86_ins_ros-280-693-426-435)
Middle left: This circle has been messed up. The scribe has hit the fold of the parchment and had to recentre his pair of compasses. The width is aprox 9.3cm, but if you look the top and bottom halves of the circle do not quite match at the fold. The centre of the circle is aprox the centre of the image.
![[Image: image.jpg?ref=f86_ins_ros&q=f86_ins_ros-...99-410-434]](https://voynich.ninja/extractor/image.jpg?ref=f86_ins_ros&q=f86_ins_ros-1432-699-410-434)
Middle right: The same thing has happened here - the circle is not perfect where the compasses have hit the fold and been recentered. The image is 9.2 cm wide.
![[Image: image.jpg?ref=f86_ins_ros&q=f86_ins_ros-...01-488-461]](https://voynich.ninja/extractor/image.jpg?ref=f86_ins_ros&q=f86_ins_ros-235-1201-488-461)
Bottom left: This circle is 9.5cm wide. The centre of the circle is not the centre of the image; instead it is below it:
![[Image: image.jpg?ref=f86_ins_ros&q=f86_ins_ros-...27-477-505]](https://voynich.ninja/extractor/image.jpg?ref=f86_ins_ros&q=f86_ins_ros-820-1227-477-505)
Bottom middle: The circle is 9.5cm wide. The centre of the image corresponds with the centre of the circle.
![[Image: image.jpg?ref=f86_ins_ros&q=f86_ins_ros-...81-430-483]](https://voynich.ninja/extractor/image.jpg?ref=f86_ins_ros&q=f86_ins_ros-1407-1281-430-483)
Bottom right: This circle is 9.6cm. The centre of the image does not correspond with the centre of the circle:
The "clock" in the bottom left is mechanically drawn on the inside circle, rather badly. I imagine it was difficult to do such a small circle with the pair of compasses available to the scribe. The outer circle, however, appears to have been drawn by hand afterwards.
Observations:
- The problems experienced by the two circles of the middle row suggest that the parchment was folded before the imagery was inked, because the compasses have hit the fold and had to be realigned.
-The circles are all roughly the same sizes, suggesting that the scribe drew the circles in sequence and before inking in the details.
The first four are the same size; the middle right is the smallest.
The following two are the same size, with the final one being slightly bigger.
If this is correct, then it means there was an overall plan, and probably a template for this drawing.
- Sometimes the centre of the circle is a feature of the image - in other cases it is ignored.
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| Observations on q |
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Posted by: cecilp - 18-06-2021, 01:10 AM - Forum: Analysis of the text
- Replies (2)
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q is a bit of weird character, because it almost always appears at the beginning of words, followed by o. But the cases where q isn’t followed by o are even more interesting, because they seem to follow strict rules, not random as you’d expect from mistakes or outliers. I decided to look at q’s occurrences to see what the rules might be.
qo: 5230 instances
qf: 1 instance, followed by o (q links to o, possibly like a bench)
qk: 19 instances, some might be errors, they’re followed by o (8), e (6) or c (3), often with the q extending to the k or the letter after
qp: 2 instances, both seem to be transcription mistakes
qt: 3 instances, all probably errors
qe: 66 instances, q often connects to the top of the e similarly to h
qc: 23 instances, at least some are mistakes
qch: 4 instances, all seem to be errors
qckh: 9
qcph: 2
qcth: 8
Everything else is has no instances.
From this we can make a few conclusions: q appears before o or e, sometimes with k or f in between, or before the benched gallows ckh, cth or cph.
This implies to me a few things: q affixes itself to certain word initial sounds, likely vowels. So, word initial o, e and benched gallows are vowels, or at least they sometimes start with a vowel sound. Word initial y is never a vowel or at least does not start with a vowel sound. k might be silent in some cases. Benched gallows are different from ch, and are composites beginning with e. Any of these conclusions could be wrong, but they are the initial impressions I get from this.
If it hasn’t already been done, a look into whether or not qe words have q-less equivalents might yield interesting results.
I got all the numbers from voynichese.com
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| An Allegory of Salvation (Koen Gheuens & Cary Rapaport) |
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Posted by: Koen G - 17-06-2021, 03:38 PM - Forum: News
- Replies (84)
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I just published a post I've been working on together with Cary for the last couple of months. It took a lot more involvement, research and late night writing sessions than usual, but we are happy with the result. We believe it opens up a new, coherent avenue of investigation into the manuscript's images.
If possible, please read it when you have some time to spare, since it turned out much longer than my usual posts (more like an article).
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| A schematic and inventory of Herbal A pages, in their current state |
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Posted by: RenegadeHealer - 08-06-2021, 05:24 PM - Forum: Physical material
- Replies (3)
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Just in case anyone might find it useful, here's a schematic I made a while back of all quires that contain Herbal A folios. Please feel free to correct any mistakes I might have made.
- The view is the top edge of the parchments head-on, stacked before folding and [their most recent] binding.
- For folios on the left side of the diagram, the recto side is toward the top of the page and the verso side toward the bottom. The reverse is true for the folios on the right.
- The dashed lines indicate bifolios currently bound in the same quire that are not Herbal A.
- Source for data: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
Q1
1—^—8
2—^—7
3—^—6
4—^—5
Q2
9—^—16
10—^—15
11—^—14
^—13
Q3
17—^—24
18—^—23
19—^—22
20—^—21
Q4
25—^—32
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27—^—30
28—^—29
Q5
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35—^—38
36—^—37
Q6
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42—^—47
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44—^—45
Q7
49—^—56
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51—^—54
52—^—53
Q8
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58—^—65
Q15
87—^—90i—90ii
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Q17
93—^—96
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A few stats, none new, but all worth noting here:
- 25 Herbal A bifolios. This includes the now missing first half of 12-13. Also, 87-90 is technically a trifolio with six pages instead of a bifolio's four. Conveniently, these two extra plant images are matched by the absence of any plant images on 58, giving a total count of:
- 100 Herbal A plant pages
- Q1~3 are homogeneously Herbal A
- Q4~8 are heterogeneously Herbal A, admixed exclusively with Herbal B
- The first 8 consecutive quires all contain Herbal A bifolios
- Only two Herbal A bifolios occur outside of the first 8 consecutive quires: the 87-90 trifolio in Q15, and 93-96 in Q17.
- With the omission of any single bifolio, all the rest of Herbal A would fit neatly into six quires of four bifolios each
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| specific names of the siglum used on SH |
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Posted by: Davidsch - 02-06-2021, 11:22 PM - Forum: Codicology and Paleography
- Replies (21)
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Names of the scribal sigla that were in use by medieval scribes are often referred to as glyphs, marks or
Tironian notes, which is a general term and does not refer to a specific symbol.
So there are for example: the breves (ĕ), acutes (ó), apices (u᷄), the thorn, the rotunda, ampersand, etc,
But what is the name referring to the curl that is used on the CH to become SH?
If there is no name, can we agree on a name for it?
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| The quire numbers |
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Posted by: arca_libraria - 01-06-2021, 12:23 AM - Forum: Marginalia
- Replies (5)
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A long time ago, in a galaxy far far away - or more precisely, in 2015 on the Cipher Mysteries blog, Nick Pelling made a post about the quire numbers in the VMS and his observation that they have an unusual format has lived in my brain ever since.
This is the blog post: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
Ever since I read that blog, whenever I browse through a manuscript I take a moment to scan for quire numbers in the hope that I might see a quire-counting system like it, and I have never found a good match. Nick has a You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. and at the time he suggested that there might be four different scribes who wrote or emended the quire numbers. I am not sure if I agree that 4 different people wrote or emended the quire numbers, but I agree that there is a lot of variation in both the numerals and the grammatical endings and it is worth keeping in mind that these variations exist.
As the quire numbers are believed to have been added after the VMS had been rearranged at least once, the quire numbers probably(?) represent the work of later owners or librarians rather than the work of the original scribes of the VMS, but I was hoping that we could use this thread to share similar quire numbering formats if we ever find any as it might help to identify some of the subsequent owners or users of the manuscript.
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