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Persecution of Christians - Tobias - 23-03-2020
Hi all,
I hope this hasn't been discussed here already, at least I specifically searched for the appropriate keywords but could not find any related topic.
There have been theories about the VMS having some pagan content which, for obvious reasons, should be hidden both in text and in the images. That got me thinking: If I wanted to hide pagan (or any other scientific, philosophical, etc) ideas that would surely get me in trouble in a strictly christian society, I would try to make it look very christian to the uninformed viewer.
Maybe the issue here is the other way around: A christian book which had to look like it has nothing to do with christianity. So what if the author originated from central/southern europe, but lived e.g. in the Ottoman Empire or any other place where there was a certain persecution of christians, and tried to make his work look like something that may have been more tolerated in that area?
That would fit well with the theories about hidden christian motives in the images of e.g. the plants/roots or nymphs.
Does that make sense to you?
Cheers, T.
RE: Persecution of Christians - Koen G - 23-03-2020
Hi Tobias
I (obviously) think that these are some very good questions. In most richly illustrated medieval books, there is at least some obvious indication that the contents was in line with Christian morality, or at least that the patron was a proper Christian. Some time ago I proposed manuals like the "Livre de Chasse" as instances of manuscripts where the human figures are exclusively found in non-religious contexts, but even here there tends to be something like an image of the patron praying to God or Mary. In short, to find a manuscript with so many human figures without reassuring links to familiar religious themes is unusual.
Until not so long ago, I would have stopped there and say, well, the VM is clearly made by or for someone who did not find Christianity important enough to have it interfere with his "scientific" imagery. This is one of the reasons why Jews are regularly proposed as the makers of the VM, or Turks, or ...
But I've done a complete 180 on that and now I think the MS actually hides the kind of devotional imagery that was popular in the early 15th century. So why would it smuggle such mainstream devotional images aboard what looks like secular/scientific imagery? (Note that this is far from widely believed and I think most people would still find it a bit crazy).
One possibility is, as you say, that the MS was made in, or for going to, an area where Christianity was frowned upon. Unfortunately I have not yet researched this, and I suspect it's a difficult subject if you really want to get to the bottom of it.
You see, the matter can be complicated in both ways. Some areas under Muslim rule would have been fine with Christian imagery within their borders. And these tolerances changed over time.
But on the other hand, it is also possible that some areas had a form of aniconism going on, where they forbade religious imagery. Like in the same way Muslims today forbid the depiction of the Prophet. So one possibility is that the VM supposedly depicts only plants, animals and personifications of abstract concepts (so no real people). But then secretly it hides imagery that could be used for private devotion. Like this a traveller could enter an area where the worship of images was strictly forbidden, but still carry his holy images with him.
Christianity in general has always had a difficult relationship with the worship of images. It's kind of forbidden in the Old Testament but at the same time it has always been an essential part of mainstream Catholicism.
[Apart from this, I also think it is possible that the VM images became as they are through a form of intellectual exercise, rather than through necessity].
RE: Persecution of Christians - nablator - 23-03-2020
(23-03-2020, 01:17 PM)Tobias Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Maybe the issue here is the other way around: A christian book which had to look like it has nothing to do with christianity. So what if the author originated from central/southern europe, but lived e.g. in the Ottoman Empire or any other place where there was a certain persecution of christians, and tried to make his work look like something that may have been more tolerated in that area?
Hi Tobias and Koen,
I have been wondering about a different scenario. The intolerance may not have been so high in Islamic countries as it was in Europe, against some Christian books that were hunted down until very few or none survived. Not just heretical texts (many possible pre-1420 heresies) but also some apocryphal texts were suppressed, for instance some (lost) gospels.
So the idea of making a fake herbal, etc. compendium that looked, at first glance, as if it was written in an unknown foreign language instead of a cipher, to make it less conspicuous, and whose content looked completely tame and non-religious, from the abundant imagery, could appeal to people who wanted to preserve a book from destruction. This is highly speculative of course.
This seems more likely to me than the idea of a hidden pagan content because ancient pagan Greek/Latin texts were actually very much in fashion, under the impulse of the Humanists, even those that could be considered problematic, advocating Epicurean values for example: such texts would not need to be disguised.
RE: Persecution of Christians - Tobias - 24-03-2020
(23-03-2020, 06:00 PM)nablator Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.So the idea of making a fake herbal, etc. compendium that looked, at first glance, as if it was written in an unknown foreign language instead of a cipher, to make it less conspicuous, and whose content looked completely tame and non-religious, from the abundant imagery, could appeal to people who wanted to preserve a book from destruction.
Of course this is plausible too. From the german Wiki (the english version is missing this part):
Quote:1415 wurde der böhmische Reformator You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. an seinem Geburtstag am 6. Juli in You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. zum Feuertod verurteilt. Auf dem Weg zur Hinrichtung wurde er am Friedhof jener Kirche vorbeigeführt, wo zur selben Stunde seine Bücher „in Anwesenheit des Klerus und johlenden Volkes“ verbrannt wurden.[In 1415, Constance, the reformer Jan Hus was executed right after his books have been burned.]
On the other hand, that would have been risky still, since the possesion of a supposedly magic book with naked ladies could get you in trouble still.
Quote:Am 7. Februar 1497 und am 17. Februar 1498 ließ der You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. in You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. durch eine „Kinderpolizei“ in Haus- und Straßensammlungen die „Herausgabe aller unehrbaren Schriften, Figuren und Gemälde“ erzwingen und verbrannte in einem „Scheiterhaufen der Eitelkeiten“ pornographische und heidnische Bücher, Glücksspiele, Kosmetik, obszöne Bilder, You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. und alle Werke des You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view., die in der Stadt gefunden werden konnten.[In 1497 and 1498 the priest G. Savonarola ordered his "Childrens police" to force citizens to give up and burn all pornographic and pagan books plus other items that were associated with vanity all over the town of Florence.]
Quote:Im 15. Jahrhundert gab es zahlreiche derartige Aktionen auch schon vor den „bruciamenti“ Savonarolas, die ebenfalls oft von Bußpredigern initiiert wurden, etwa in You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view., You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view., You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view., You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. und You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view..[During the 15th century there have been numerous comparable aktions, e.g. in Bologna, Augsburg, Nuremberg, Bamberg and Vienna.]
all You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
[url=https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/B%C3%BCcherverbrennung#15._Jahrhundert][/url]
(23-03-2020, 06:00 PM)nablator Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.The intolerance may not have been so high in Islamic countries as it was in EuropeI certainly agree with that. I have not found any reliable source at the moment, but I am quite sure that there were certain islamic regions that were quite open to any kind of scientific, philiophical or even magic book, but drew a harsh line at christian contents around that period.
RE: Persecution of Christians - Koen G - 24-03-2020
With Islam, I think your best bet is to study aniconism in the broader sense. This stems from a general prohibition of idolatry, and was extended in varying degrees to other forms of art.
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
Islamic aniconism is usually understood as a prohibition against depicting living things. Plants are okay, and in some periods people-that-aren't-real-people are okay as well. We are probably all familiar with Islamic depictions of the constellations, for example - those aren't actual living things.
The Wiki has some interesting passages. Regions like Al-Andalus were more relaxed. You could generally draw people or animals, but you had to make it very clear that the images were not meant to be worshiped. People were numerous and small, all drawn at the same size. Drawings of humans were often crude on purpose, again to show that you have no intention of worship. Some subjects (scientific, hunting scenes..) are inherently "secular" and make it clear of themselves that no worship is intended (or even possible, unless you worship images of crudely drawn hunters).
So in short, images were okay in parts and periods of the Islamic world as long as it was clear they were not meant for worship.
Now, the kind of religious imagery I think is "hidden" in the VM is part of Catholicism's most intense period if idolatry. Depictions of Christ's side wound were often touched and stroked until the paint wore off and the vellum ripped. They often came with notes ensuring that the wound was true to size, as "real" as possible. You were supposed to use these images in your private worship, channel and imagine Christ's suffering through them.
I can imagine this is not the kind of practice that would be welcomed even in Al-Andalus.
RE: Persecution of Christians - Mark Knowles - 24-03-2020
I would just like to say that, even though I am not a Christian, I think the persecution of Christians is absolutely wrong and should never be tolerated. I would add the same for those of other faiths and those of none.