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I've deciphered the Voyni...
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| Glyph count request |
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Posted by: bunny - 09-06-2020, 10:17 AM - Forum: Analysis of the text
- Replies (11)
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I am looking for a data base list of glyph counts for whole manuscript. I know there is debate about the exact identity of some glyphs and difficulty in reading some but I'm guessing all the analysis I have seen has been using some kind of close as set of data fro this. No problem finding word counts and single folios but need preferably list that covers most common 30.
thanks,
Bunny
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| Roland l'Écrivain |
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Posted by: R. Sale - 08-06-2020, 12:42 AM - Forum: Voynich Talk
- Replies (8)
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Posted long ago:
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Wikipedia:
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According to this source
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On page 130: It says that he was physician to the Duke of Burgundy from Jun 1437 till his death (in 1469?).
Philip the Good was Duke of Burgundy from 1419 to 1467.
Another Burgundy connection.
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| 86v3 shows the location of the garden of Eden being in Iraq? |
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Posted by: bunny - 04-06-2020, 12:30 PM - Forum: Imagery
- Replies (10)
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Pisces has been related over time to fish, monster (depicted like a wyrm in Getty image), bird, goddess, rope. The VM Pisces looks pretty straightforward but that would be not very Voynich like.
Suggest f86v3 in the light of outside data shows the location of the garden of Eden being in Iraq.
Does what is says on the box.
Bunny
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| [split] Zodiac Terminology discussion |
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Posted by: bunny - 03-06-2020, 11:50 PM - Forum: Voynich Talk
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(03-06-2020, 10:18 PM)-JKP- Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. (03-06-2020, 09:55 PM)R. Sale Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
...
Where does the sequence start? According to the Zodiac Man, Pisces represent the feet. The problem is with the structure, not with the VMs representation.
Yes, interesting point.
If the focus of the VMS is medical (including the zodiac section), and if it followed the anatomical relationships of the constellations to the body parts, then the sequence would quite likely start with Aries (head) or Pisces (feet).
If Aries, it works its way down. However, if it starts with Pisces, then it would have to rotate up to the head again and work down in order to follow the traditional sequence.
It's a zodiac! Zodiac is cirular, man is straight up and down. If the Zodiac Man eats his feet and becomes an ouroboros, the sequence will go round forever, start where you like?
Bunny
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| Pisces a dragon?? |
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Posted by: bunny - 02-06-2020, 08:06 PM - Forum: Imagery
- Replies (24)
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I came across an interesting image on Getty Images:
Representation of a zodiac with in the centre the sun surronded by signs of the zodiac, illumination from a latin manuscript, Romanesque period (12th 13th century)
"Sorronded" correct for search!
It shows pisces as a Wyrm dragon eating a fish. Inference - fish can represent dragons and dragons represent fish. Is Voynich woman being eaten by a fish being eaten by a dragon? Do the dragon like creatures in the VM represent Pisces?
Bunny
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| Tradition espies Melusine |
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Posted by: R. Sale - 02-06-2020, 12:48 AM - Forum: Imagery
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The investigation of the Creature (VMs f79v, the 'mermaid" not the Critter (VMs f80v, the Agnus Dei).
This is an investigation that has blossomed over the years. At first the creature was thought to be the sort of 'VMs version" of a mermaid, or a siren or some other alluring and feminine water spirit, badly rendered. But it turns out she was showing more thigh than any respectable mermaid. A similarity was noted early on between the VMs and the illustration in Harley 334, which has several similarities, but still she had no name. Not until the myth of Melusine was brought into the investigation, and a matching depiction of 'woman + fish', that looks like she is stepping into or out of a costume. Mermaids may stay as mermaids, for the greater part (or not), but Melusine changes every week.
This might identify who she is, but does it tell us why Melusine is featured in Harley 334? Not really. One myth has Meusine as the ancestress of the House of Lusignan. An interesting historical diversion, and other mythical versions have her as ancestress of other rulers, such as the Plantagenets and the House of Luxembourg. In an uncommon combination of historical circumstance. It was the Valois Duke of Berry, Jean, Duc de Berry, who took the Lusignan fortress from the English. And there is a tell-tale hint of this in the March illustration of Tres Riches Heures, with the little dragon manifestation of Melusine above the right-hand tower.
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Not only did the Duke of Berry possess the historical location, his mother was Bonne of Luxembourg, an actual descendant of the mythical Melusine in the version where it is Siegfried who falls ass over teakettle, instead of Raymond. Believe it or not, it apparently served as royal propaganda - like the classical Greek and Roman rulers who claimed descent from various gods, goddesses, and heroes. And there is a second literary connection in the commission by Jean de Berry of the Roman de Melusine from Jean d'Arras. The ties to specific traditions become more clear. This is not the illustrations of some unknown mermaid or siren. No one claims to be a descendant of Minnie the Mermaid or Suzie the Siren. The interpretation based on a time and place providing the most relevant traditions close to the time of C-14 dates includes not only this Duke of Berry, but his brothers as well, and among them Philip the Bold, Duke of Burgundy, and his descendants.
The library of the Duke of Berry is also relevant to VMs investigation because it was the starting place for the 1410 version of the Oresme cosmos and for the Berry Apocalypse, which has the example of a plain nebuly line used as a cosmic boundary, which is also a part of the VMs cosmos and the VMs Critter (Agnus Dei). Further implying that these things are historically tied together and to the VMs by traditions that have gotten lost and need to be recovered.
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| Missing zodiac folio |
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Posted by: bunny - 01-06-2020, 03:51 PM - Forum: Astrology
- Replies (1)
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Regarding a recent conversation on the missing zodiac folio elsewhere, I wondered if may be of interest here too. I have previously estimated what it may contain and wonder if anyone else has also, or even drawn what they expect to see?
Copied in so if the formatting doesn't work I'll try again:
Bunny
I anticipate that the missing folio f74r+v depicts Capricorn and Aquarius to complete the year. The Capricorn folio is assigned to the month of December and the events for this month are shown below.
December 13th Saturn at quadrature
13th Earth at Perihelion
16th Winter Solstice
21st Venus greatest elongation west
27th Mercury greatest elongation east
The Aquarius folio is assigned to the month of January and the events for this month are shown below.
January 1st New Moon
30th 2nd new Moon after Winter Solstice = New year?
Aquarius (January) in the year 1055 AD would have covered the end of the year and the start of the New year as it contained two New Moons, the New year starting on the second New Moon after the Winter Solstice (standard formula for calculating the Chinese New Year for 2000 years) in December (Capricorn).
1054 AD December 16th [font=Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]Winter Solstice[/font]
1055 AD January [font=Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]1st [font=Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]New Moon[/font][/font]
January [font=Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]30th New Moon =New Year?[/font]
Saturn at quadrature in Capricorn would indicate the presence of a male nymph. Earth at Perihelion would probably be depicted in a similar way (undetermined) to the Earth at Aphelion in Cancer. This although undetermined is of interest because it is one of the few times the Earth may be depicted as a nymph. The Winter Solstice as in Cancer would be expected to be depicted by a crowned nymph, but this being a major even in the Chinese calendar I would expect the crown to be more elaborate than the one in Cancer, not only this but it is also the beginning of the Chinese Solar year and some kind of solar imagery may be associated with the crown. The Winter Solstice is called Dōng Zhì, "The Extreme of Winter." in China, it sets the timing of the Luna calendar (always required to fall in month 11 and the timing of the New Year) but also the solar calendar which is necessary to aid with farming (the Luna calendar does not follow the seasons in a useful way for planting and harvesting). The position of the Sun along the ecliptic is divided into 24 markers based around the Solstices and Equinoxes and so the Winter Solstice is the most important point out of all the astronomical features of the year and Capricorn is likely to display this importance, possibly having 24 main folio markers around the outer circle. Another two markers would probably align the Sun with the NCP and NEP and indicate a supernovae, possibly SN 5 BC? As in Virgo the greatest elongation of Venus may be depicted by a female nymph, but in a plain barrel signifying dawn rather than a tub. Mercury may be shown as a male or female nymph in a barrel with dotted line signifying dusk. These two planets are particularly well placed for observation this month. No "Conjunction Nymphs" would be expected to be present.
The main feature of Capricorn is that it may be shown with a star being held by the central "Sea goat" figure, representing the position of SN 5 BC? Given its implications and the fact that this is one of the folios that was deliberately removed it is likely to be more elaborate and distinctive than the other stars held by central figures, singling it out for attention, and have religious symbolism found with it.
Aquarius would probably contains the same New Year features as shown in Pisces, possibly with horizontal barrels and nymphs emerging from them (undetermined). Capricorn likewise probably shows nymphs in barrels if this is a feature of winter. The two nymphs at the top of the Sagittarius circles standing in front of barrels which may depict a solar eclipse may alternatively be the start of this process of nymphs being depicted in barrels in winter, in which case Capricorn, and particularly Aquarius, would show the majority if not all the nymphs in barrels increasingly shown with patterned barrels.
Apart from various conjunctions of stars and planets with the Moon, there are no outstanding astronomical events in this month, the only significant events involving Uranus which is not one of the five classical planets and not "officially" discovered until 1781 (Although John Flamsteed catalogued it as 34 Tauri in 1690). The Aquarius folio may therefore be immersed mainly in Lunar astronomy and the calculation of the year cycles, and the nymph suggested to represent the lunar New Year in Pisces may figure heavily in the imagery on this folio, along with "Conjunction Nymphs". Other subject may may include star cycles such as the appearance of Sirius at sunset, or Arcturus, Spica, Vega and Altair in the dawn sky. Also Taurus, the Pleiades and SN 1054 high in the night sky.
Following on from the "Barrels" section I have suggested that Capricorn and Aquarius would be shown with complete circles of nymphs, Capricorn with one reflecting the Winter Solstice and the shortest day of the year or three if the third circle reflects a major solar event, and Aquarius with two - the default value. Both may show nymphs in barrels lying on their side starting from the middle of the Capricorn circle of nymphs, possibly related to the solar year and indicating the start of a Solar New Year.
Clearly this could go in the astronomy or imagery section, but as it is a zodiac folio posted here.
thanks,
Bunny
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| 04 June 2020 Talk on The History of the Book and the History of Cryptography |
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Posted by: arca_libraria - 01-06-2020, 12:33 PM - Forum: News
- Replies (3)
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I've just seen an announcement on twitter that Prof Bill Sherman will be giving a talk on The History of the Book and The History of Cryptography online on 04 June 2020 at 13:00 BST (GMT+1). If you wish to attend the online talk then you need to book in advance, presumably so you can be sent a link to the web-stream.
The talk is being organised by The Book and Print Initiative which is a project within the Warburg Institute/School of Advanced Study/University of London.
The only thing I have right now (1st June 2020 at 12:30 BST) is a link to the tweet annoucing the event You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. as the Warburg Institute's website is currently broken which means that the booking link and any additional information is inaccessible. So far, I have not been able to sign-up for the talk.
Disclaimer: I don't know Bill Sherman and have no links to any of the groups organising this event, I just saw it on Twitter and thought it looked interesting!
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