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Implications of the continuity of Currier "languages" |
Posted by: MarcoP - 20-12-2018, 10:46 AM - Forum: Analysis of the text
- Replies (21)
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Several researchers have pointed out that the features underlying Currier's A and B "languages" do not form two separated sets, but spread over a continuous range. For instance, You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. represents pages on the basis of word frequencies: Donald used Principal Component Analysis (PCA) to reduce the number of dimensions from the long raw vectors to plottable 2d points.
Currier A (green), Currier B (red), or uncertain (black).
[I have trimmed the image and made it more contrasted]
Similar results are presented by You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. and You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.. The continuity between the two "languages" appears both in character-based and word-based analyses (this plot is by Sarah Goslee).
voynich1-charABcode.png (Size: 26.14 KB / Downloads: 341)
Researchers have drawn different conclusions from this evidence:
Donald Fisk Wrote:...Prescott Currier reported in Papers on the Voynich Manuscript that the text is in two separate languages or dialects, now commonly referred to as Currier A and Currier B. It will be shown here that this distinction is somewhat fuzzy. There are differences (see "A Principal Component Analysis of the Voynich Manuscript Words"), but these can be explained more simply by differences in the text's subject matter.
Rene Zandbergen Wrote:When Currier identified his languages A and B, he did this on the basis of the different statistics of the initial herbal pages in the MS [...]. It is clear that these have distinct properties - the clouds do not overlap. He also checked the other pages, and noted more variations, but his criteria for distinguishing the languages did not allow him to see that the overall statistics demonstrate that there is a continuum, and the other (not herbal) pages actually 'bridge the gap'.
This does not demonstrate that the text is meaningful, or that the text variations are caused by different subject matter (as suggested in by Montemurro and Zanette). If that were the case, the difference between herbal A and herbal B should not exist. The cause of the (statistical) language variation is still unexplained.
As always, things are puzzling. I understand that both points of view have their value.
Let's speculate
What are the implications of these findings?
What the reasons for the observed phenomena can be?
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Events that may have obscured manuscript history |
Posted by: -JKP- - 13-12-2018, 12:46 AM - Forum: Provenance & history
- Replies (5)
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Sometimes interesting articles like this come up, that reveal how a manuscript's provenance can be obscured by unusual events (the VMS certainly qualifies in this category, given that Voynich originally hid where he procured the VMS).
Here is a thread to post articles of this kind, and one to start it off...
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Unfortunately, this also happens:
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Sometimes the mysteries are solved (or partly solved):
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Are Foldouts Always Shorter to Left but Longer to Right? |
Posted by: ChenZheChina - 29-11-2018, 08:33 AM - Forum: Physical material
- Replies (24)
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I checked René Zandbergen’s website about quire schemata, and found that all foldouts are bound in a way that their left is shorter while their right is longer.
Images are downloaded from René’s website.
schema09.gif (Size: 3.85 KB / Downloads: 298)
Quire 9: 2-page wide to the left, 3.5-page wide to the right
schema10.gif (Size: 3.02 KB / Downloads: 295)
Quire 10: 1-page wide to the left, 2.5-page wide to the right
schema11.gif (Size: 3.22 KB / Downloads: 289)
Quire 11: 1-page wide to the left, 3.5-page wide to the right
schema14.gif (Size: 4.86 KB / Downloads: 288)
Quire 14: 1-page wide to the left, 2-page wide to the right
schema15.gif (Size: 4.29 KB / Downloads: 296)
Quire 15: 1-page wide to the left, 2.5-page or 2-page wide to the right
schema17.gif (Size: 3.35 KB / Downloads: 295)
Quire 17: 1-page wide to the left, 2-page wide to the right
schema19.gif (Size: 4.23 KB / Downloads: 294)
Quire 19: 1-page wide to the left, 2-page or 2.5-page wide to the right
So here’s my question: Is this phenomenon just a coincidence, or a common practice at that time? In other words, is it possible for the original author to design pages that to be bound in a way where left foldout is longer than right foldout?
I want to ask this question, because I am trying to review and re-order Herbal-B pages. When I was examining the foldout f94-f95, I wondered that if I could bind between what is now referred as f95v1 and f95v2, a.k.a. f95r1 and f95r2, like this:
Untitled.jpg (Size: 125.72 KB / Downloads: 289)
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People in barrels |
Posted by: -JKP- - 16-11-2018, 09:01 PM - Forum: Imagery
- Replies (14)
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I was going to respond to Koen's barrrel image on the "rings" thread but realized this probably needs its own thread...
Diogenes is traditionally shown in a barrel, sometimes upright:
Morgan MS M.126 (England, c. 1470 but notice that the text and illustrations are in the French/Flanders style)
Or sometimes on its side, like a cave. These two, in which the barrel is sideways are from French manuscripts:
Alexander in a glass barrel (medieval submarine):
British Library Royal MS 20 B (France, c. 1420)
Bathing barrels (there are many of these, and they are always upright, so I'll post just one):
Morgan MS M.312 Book of Hours, use of Rouen, c. 1470s
Barrels for food and tools:
There are also many barrels associated with milking cows and goats, distillation and fermentation, and they are pretty much always upright, so I'll post just one:
The ones that are most consistently sideways are Alexander's barrel and Diogenes's barrrel.
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Marginalia f111r |
Posted by: Wladimir D - 12-11-2018, 07:27 PM - Forum: Marginalia
- Replies (4)
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At the top of the You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. page, there is certainly an inscription (partially corrupted).
At first glance, the first letter in the red box is n (Latin).
The second letter is U / V.
However, it cannot be excluded that the first character is X (10 is Roman). X is often written incessantly without taking the pen from the paper, with the formation of a loop on the right. The tail (red circle) can be directed both to the right, and down, or to the left. But I met (but unfortunately did not copy) when the loop can form at the bottom (my drawing is dots). JKP, do you have a similar example in the collection?
Thereat the inscription in the red square is similar to the Roman number 17.
If, in the green square written the number 18, then can have serious consequences for the VMS study.[font=Tahoma, sans-serif]
МАРГИНАЛИЯ 111R.JPG (Size: 38.59 KB / Downloads: 146)
[/font]
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