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| Video game: Chants of Sennaar |
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Posted by: nablator - 28-05-2024, 03:34 PM - Forum: Fiction, Comics, Films & Videos, Games & other Media
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The Rohonc codex reminds me of last year's (2023) game You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view., an adventure game where progress is possible only by learning You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.. The meaning of the words and the grammatical rules can be learned (guessed) from context. There are 5 fictional languages to decode and code: translate directly from a language to another language (1 glyph = 1 word). I enjoyed the first 3 levels, then it gets difficult in the last levels/languages, too much for my taste, it's frustrating to have little context and be forced to guess.
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| Wild cards |
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Posted by: dfs346 - 27-05-2024, 10:08 AM - Forum: Analysis of the text
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Thoughts on mapping from precursor documents in abbreviated script, and a possible consequent need to treat certain glyphs, in certain positions, as "wild cards".
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| Ziziphora - f14r |
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Posted by: Pardis Motiee - 26-05-2024, 09:12 AM - Forum: Imagery
- Replies (1)
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Ziziphora is a genus of the family Lamiaceae. The species of the same genus are medicinal plants used in ancient times. This plant You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. looks-like the illustration on f14r. Although, I can't convince myself that there is a Ziziphora with a single flower on its stem, the leaf and flower style was a little bit shocking.
The translation was like: Capricorn side, single flower. We (are) in the sea and Taurus came to the Moon. In the place of the product, there is Ziziphora intoxicant. It is a bitter product. (procedure You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.)
The term defined as Ziziphora was the sequence R.T'.A.K = رتاک and the output in Dehkhoda lexicon was pronounced like "rotak" written form رتک with various synonyms: پودنه بََرّی, مشکطرامشیع, بقلةالغزال (the written form in Voynich has the second vowel but first vowel is not specified). Not many descriptions were available for these synonyms so I searched in dictionary again مشک طرا مشیع was actually Kakouty (Ziziphora) a well-studied plant in traditional medicine and apparently it was written about the plant in Makhzan al Adviyeh.
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| Available Transcripts |
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Posted by: Pardis Motiee - 24-05-2024, 08:16 PM - Forum: Voynich Talk
- Replies (3)
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I want to analyze at least one hundred pages by a program. Which means that one hundred pages must be transcribed. Is there any available transcript that separates the letters?
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| An Imitation Voynichese |
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Posted by: HermesRevived - 22-05-2024, 09:17 PM - Forum: Analysis of the text
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We can make an imitation of Voynichese in the following way:
1. Take two opposing words, of about the same length, in any given language.
2. Divide these words up into bigrams and trigrams.
3. Make a rule that the first bigram of the first word and last bigram of the other word are initial and final respectively.
4. Combine the bigrams and trigrams into an array of combinations.
For example, here are two opposing terms:
RUSSIA
UKRAINE
(As it happens, these words do have some of the characteristics of the Voynich words QOKEEDY and CHOLDAIIN.)
Now divide them up into bigrams and trigrams such as:
RU SS IA
RUSS IA
RU SSIA
UK RAINE
UKR AINE
UK RA INE
Now combine them into words, keeping RU initial and AINE final.
RU
SSUK
UKIA
UK
SSIAKRAINE
IARAIN
RA
AINE
RUK
UKRU
KRIA
UKUSSIA
IARUK
RUSSUK
RUSSAINE
RAINERU
RUKIA
Some configurations are not possible. You cannot have NRKUR for example because it is not a combination of permitted bigrams or trigrams.
Here is an imitation line of text Voynich-style:
ru.ssuk.ukia.ra.ra.kria.russuk.russaine.rukia.ra.iarain.ssiar.ukia.kruss-
Now design a glyph-set that allows these words to be written in a smooth, even, continuous (peaceloving) cursive script. It might be prudent to design a single glyph for the [SS] and perhaps special glyphs to mark initials and finals.
That is essentially what Voynichese is, except the two opposing terms are QOKEEDY and CHOLDAIIN. This is the simplest possible formulation of the textual phenomenon we find in the Voynich manuscript. I contend that, in truth, Voynichese is only a more complex version of this. In its essential form this is what it is: two paradigmatic words, divided into bigrams and trigrams, and combined together according to some extra rules (and substitute glyphs largely marking initials and finals.)
This is not to say this is how it was made, but however it was made this is not an inaccurate description of what it amounts to prima facie.
Nor is this an unwarranted oversimplification. It is a corrective to studies that dwell on minutiae, epiphenomena and noise and fail to see the bigger picture.
It is necessary, sometimes, to step back and see the elephant.
* * *
The proper term for what we encounter in the Voynich text, and the way words rehearse variations of the paradigms QOKEEDY and CHOLDAIIN is metamorphosis. We can speak of mutations, variants, deviations and so forth, but metamorphosis seems the better and more fitting term. The nature of the text is metamorphic.
Voynich words are either truncations or variants of one of the paradigmatic words, QOKEEDY or CHOLDAIIN, or else combinations of variations of these paradigmata. We witness the shape of configurations changing. The paradigms metamorphosize. Every word is a metamorphosis of the paradigmata.
We can give a consistent account of all words in this way.
Thus [qokey] is a metamorphosis (by truncation) of QOKEEDY. [cholkedy] is a metamorphosis (by combination) of CHOL + KEEDY.
Often we see interplay between prefixes and suffixes - the prefix of one paradigm in combination with the suffix of the other. But we find two prefixes - [okcho] is QOK + CHOL - and other combinations as well.
The basis for the interplay are the natural divisions of the paradigms.
QOKEEDY naturally breaks into three parts: QO + KEE + DY.
Or (dropping the initial and final glyphs) : OK + KE + ED
CHOLDAIIN naturally bifurcates: CHOL + DAIIN.
But QOKEEDY can be broken into two in the manner of (under the influence of) CHOLDAIIN: QOK + EEDY, or QO + KEEDY.
And CHOLDAIIN can be broken into three like QOKEEDY: CHO + LD + AIIN, which also permits other bifurcations CHOLD + AIIN and CHO + LDAIIN.
In short, the paradigms can be broken into a set of bigrams and trigrams (and quadrigrams where two bigrams are intact.)
* * *
Here is an account of a smattering of words that demonstrates some of the types of metamorphosis that occur:
tchedy is a metamorphosis of KEEDY
qokey = QOKEEDY
okeey = QOKEEDY
lkeey = LD + KEEDY
qokeor = QOK + CHOL
chedy = KEEDY
cheokeey = CHO + KEEDY
qokeey = QOKEEDY
chedl = CHO + LD
lkair = LD + AIIN
alkeedy = CHOL + KEEDY
ram = DAIIN
pchedy = KEEDY
qosaiin = QOK + DAIIN
cheopchy = CHOL + KEEDY
cheeos = CHOL
In lines of text we often see groupings of words with the same structure. For example:
f53v.P.8
sheey.kshody.tsheody.sheody.sheetchy.opod-
Every word in this line - except the last - is a metamorphosis of KEEDY. This line of text rehearses variants of KEEDY. Why, for what reason, and what determines the order, are further questions.
R.B.
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| Aries vs Capricorn |
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Posted by: Pardis Motiee - 19-05-2024, 08:58 PM - Forum: Imagery
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We have two goat-like illustrations, one at folio 70v and the other at folio 71r, I get words in meaning of "frozen ewe" for 70v and "goat" for 71r. What characteristics of the drawings can distinguish the two animals?
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| initial characters, to be last? right-to-left handwritting? |
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Posted by: quimqu - 16-05-2024, 07:14 PM - Forum: Analysis of the text
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As I imagine, all of us have been through René Zandbergen's magnificent website.
I read the chapter called Non-sequential writing on You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
I was a bit surprised by the conclusions of this part of the text: "In a few places, it appears as if the first characters of lines were written in a vertical column first, possibly to create a straight left margin. The remainder of the text was then added later. The following example is one paragraph on You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.. Especially in the last two lines of this fragment, there is a strong suggestion that the initial characters were written first, and the remainder of the line was written later."
I always try to imagine the scriba who was writing the manuscript, and I do not agree with this conclusion. If you are writing from left to right, the overlapping of the characters of rows 5 and 6 in the paragraph, in my opinion, can only have two different root causes. For me, it is not that the initial characters were written first. It makes no sense. If they were already written first, the scriba should have plenty of space at the right to write, so why should he overlap the first and second characters? 
In my opinion, there are two different hypotheses: (first, imagine that the drawing was already there before the writing)
- The initial characters were written last. So, there was first the whole paragraph (or the whole row of the paragraph), written from left to right. Then, at the end, the initial character was written there to avoid overlapping the drawing. He left no space enough between the last two lines and the drawing, so he overlaps the characters.
- The scriba was writing from right to left, so at the last character, he had no space and had to overlap the first and second character.
I think both hypotheses open new theories. The first hypothesis makes me wonder what kind of scriba would not write the first character first. Why should he leave that character at the end of the writing? The second hypothesis might make us consider more deeply the possibility of right-to-left text writing (such as Arabic).
If everything here has already been discussed, sorry for my entry.
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