Welcome, Guest |
You have to register before you can post on our site.
|
Online Users |
There are currently 53 online users. » 0 Member(s) | 49 Guest(s) Applebot, Bing, Facebook, Google
|
Latest Threads |
Book: Solenoid by Mircea ...
Forum: Fiction, Comics, Films & Videos, Games & other Media
Last Post: merrimacga
2 hours ago
» Replies: 3
» Views: 258
|
No text, but a visual cod...
Forum: Analysis of the text
Last Post: HermesRevived
3 hours ago
» Replies: 1,318
» Views: 250,508
|
Extension to the Currier ...
Forum: Analysis of the text
Last Post: Torsten
4 hours ago
» Replies: 10
» Views: 359
|
Dijon 1433
Forum: Voynich Talk
Last Post: R. Sale
4 hours ago
» Replies: 4
» Views: 71
|
New Post: "I Do Listen to...
Forum: Voynich Talk
Last Post: asteckley
8 hours ago
» Replies: 182
» Views: 9,201
|
The {8am} strategy
Forum: Analysis of the text
Last Post: RobGea
11 hours ago
» Replies: 2
» Views: 76
|
Paths to Decipherment
Forum: Voynich Talk
Last Post: pjburkshire
Yesterday, 01:58 PM
» Replies: 16
» Views: 569
|
Yale University Free Disc...
Forum: Voynich Talk
Last Post: ReneZ
Yesterday, 09:11 AM
» Replies: 17
» Views: 902
|
Medieval Manuscripts with...
Forum: Physical material
Last Post: Aga Tentakulus
22-04-2024, 04:03 PM
» Replies: 8
» Views: 3,993
|
The Takeshi Takahashi tra...
Forum: Analysis of the text
Last Post: nablator
22-04-2024, 02:44 PM
» Replies: 18
» Views: 6,478
|
|
|
M. Yokubinas translation |
Posted by: -JKP- - 03-05-2019, 01:35 AM - Forum: Analysis of the text
- Replies (114)
|
|
"The [Voynich] language is an agglutinative, phonetic form of defective Hebrew, and also uses some Greek words like yaya for grandmother."
--- M. Yokubinas
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
.
I don't agree that the Latin "-ris" shape (EVA-m) resembles Hebrew thav. It's completely different. Even if you mirror it, it's not similar.
I also don't agree that the minims look like shin. I've looked at many many Hebrew manuscripts and I've never seen shin written like "ain".
I also don't think VMS "a" looks like samekh. Even if you mirror it, it isn't really the same.
I don't think the long-cee looks anything like yod.
The figure-8 letter (EVA-d) doesn't look like the sample, either. It has a long straight stem. And normally this letter does not have a loop (and when it does, it's usually more triangular, like the old Phoenician letters).
What the shapes represent is another issue, but as for shape similarities, I don't find them particularly similar.
Ignoring shapes for a moment, and just looking at the glyph dynamics, the author has equated Hebrew gimel to EVA-y (9 shape) but it seems unlikely that gimel would occur so frequently at the ends of words, sometimes at the beginning, but almost never anywhere else in a word.
This is gimel: ג and some words with gimel where the letter is within the word:
בגדים אגוז מלך מגבת אנגלית אגודל
It's essentially a substitution code with subjective interpretation for individual "alchemical" glyphs.
|
|
|
Proposed solution by Agnieszka Kałużna & Jacek Syguła |
Posted by: davidjackson - 30-04-2019, 03:50 PM - Forum: News
- Replies (7)
|
|
I received today, as part of an eclectic mix of selected recipients, an email announcing the solution of the voynich.
Assuming this is for public release, here's the link to the article, which I haven't yet read in any detail.
Quote:Dear Sirs,
On Saturday 27th of April 2019 we uploaded general solution to the VMS in the paper entitled "Breaking "The Flo(wer)urishing Code" of The Voynich Manuscript" at You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.:
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
We used spaces as functional entities and showed where the bits of information are hidden which allows on decoding of large parts of text of the VMS.
Enjoy !
Kindest Regards,
Agnieszka Kałużna & Jacek Syguła
|
|
|
What Do We Need to Comfirm Stem? |
Posted by: ChenZheChina - 26-04-2019, 10:37 AM - Forum: Analysis of the text
- Replies (10)
|
|
I was reading You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. when I thought about this question:
How can we make sure that a label is sharing stem with another word in paragraphs?
Consider words below:
- Pronounce (prə’naʊns) vs Pronunciation (prə,nʌnsi’eɪʃən)
- Explain (ɪks’pleɪn) vs Explanation (,ɛksplə’neɪʃən)
- Record (rɪ’kɔ:rd) vs Record (’rekərd)
What I want to say is that, it might not be that easy to consider the first two word pairs are actually of the same stem, if we do not know their real meanings in prior. If the last word pair is written not in this form, but in some phonetic spelling (like IPA), it might be not easy to tell them, either.
This reminds me something.
One day, one of my friends told me that, in English, some words change their tone when conjugating. Then he gave me an example, where repeat is split into rě (3rd tone) and pèat (4th tone), while repeated is split into rě (3rd tone), pēa (1st tone) and tèd (4th tone). (Warning: DO NOT take his statement serious. He really thinks so, but we all know that this is not how English actually works. This is just an example that how crazy phonetic spelling systems might be, if they were not designed scientifically)
If tones were not marked by diacritic marks but different letters, I guess it could be much harder to find stem from these words.
Therefore, I think it might be a tough mission to link those labels to “regular” words in paragraphs. It’s hard to prove them to be of same stem, if two words are not exactly the same.
|
|
|
Interconnection Q13a and ROS. |
Posted by: Wladimir D - 25-04-2019, 01:15 PM - Forum: Voynich Talk
- Replies (3)
|
|
Blog in Russian https: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
Some excerpts from it.
I am convinced that at least part of the Voynich Manuscript is a copy from another document. Moreover, it was written in the same symbols of VMS.
Refer to page 80r. Here the text of several lines is written in steps, using lighter ink, which is signed and the labels next to the nymphs. How can the residual length of the line (dark ink) be foreseen in order to write the correct word in advance on the next line without having the original in front of my eyes?
There are some more examples of the transfer from the original along with the drawing of parts of the text that are written on the subject with lighter inks than the rest of the text.
If you repeat my actions and make a layout of all bifolios using a printer, then you will see that the Q13a theme is placed on 8 pages and occupies a full 2 bifolios. And bifolio f78v-f81r has a relationship between the pages and should not be shared by other pages.
The Q13 does not have at least one bifolio, whose pages can also belong to Q13a. Where there should be a missing bifolio is shown.
БИФОЛИО НЕТ 2.JPG (Size: 11.05 KB / Downloads: 117)
Imagine that the ROS clamshell has fallen into disrepair (or you just need to make a copy of it), but you only have the bifolio format available. You will be forced to copy large format parts and make special notes so that you can understand the logical chain of following pages (this role in particular is played by the drain hole on 78r).
The general structure of ROS + Q13a will be as follows.
Q13-2.2.JPG (Size: 352.13 KB / Downloads: 107)
Two rivers (two watersheds), marked on ROS by two canopies in rosettes (1.2) and (2.1), are connected together in a central rosette, which corresponds to a reservoir (fountain, water tower).
Ingredients of cans (towers) are added to the water coming out of the reservoir (possibly using aqueducts You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. ), for this they are painted on the central rosette.
This process is schematically depicted on page 78r. Barrels (bags) are steamed with water from different rivers (red stream and light green). Red color inside the barrel indicates hot water. Swimming in the pool can be done with three types of herbal supplements. For this, two cranes must be provided.
There is a slight “weakness” in the arrangement of the Q13a drawings in 3x3 format. This is the absence of an explicit diagonal connection (dark green line) between 75r and 81v. What I want to answer:
1 / it is unknown what is behind the back of the right ladies. Perhaps there are nozzles removed when cutting sheets, as on both 81v and 78v.
2 / let me remind you that the copying took place, and the artist had the opportunity to improvise (or not understanding the interrelation, he omitted some of the moments captured on the original).
3 / On the other hand, the artist should have tried to copy the drawings from a large format to a bifolio, while respecting the logical relationship.
Consider the following page copying order (red numbers from 1 to 8).
ПОРЯДОК КОПИРОВАНИЯ 2.JPG (Size: 15.91 KB / Downloads: 113)
Pages 84r and 84v are interrelated and are on the same sheet. Page 75r is the last (4) on the first bifolio, and the associated page 81v is the first (5) (which is correct) on the next bifolio.
In this case, pages 78r and 75v remain unbound. But it is for these purposes that an additional hole is drawn at the bottom of the 78r as a link tag.
My conclusion.
Q13a is part of the detailed instructions for the ROS scheme.
|
|
|
Voynich text in other characters |
Posted by: Mark Knowles - 18-04-2019, 01:00 PM - Forum: Analysis of the text
- Replies (30)
|
|
One suggestion I would make if it hasn't already been made is to try and generate Voynichese like text with a different invented alphabet, i.e. set of symbols, as I think using the Voynich alphabet can be confusing as on the one hand you are trying to produce text is structured like the Voynich text, but is not exactly identical to Voynich text in its structure. This is clearly not an attempt to directly decipher the Voynich, but rather to simulate it.
|
|
|
Number of syllables distribution |
Posted by: Koen G - 14-04-2019, 02:49 PM - Forum: Analysis of the text
- Replies (50)
|
|
Quick question, has anyone ever attempted to count the number of "syllables" in Voynichese "words" and compare them to those in other languages?
For example, 10% one syllable, 30% two syllable etc.
I know we don't know for certain whether there are vowels and syllables like there would be in Latin. But various people have identified glyphs that are likely to be vowels. So if you build on that assumption, what would the result be?
(I vaguely remember that something like this has been discussed, but since we talk a lot about syllables the search function resulted in an overload).
|
|
|
Labelese Analysis |
Posted by: Mark Knowles - 14-04-2019, 02:37 PM - Forum: Analysis of the text
- Replies (17)
|
|
As far as I understand limited analysis has been conducted on the subset of Voynichese termed by some as labelese.
It would be nice to rerun many of the statistical or other analyses of the text just for labelese, so as to see where there are similarities and differences between labelese and non-labelese text. In addition I am interested in the study of labelese in its own right as I contest this ought to be Voynichese in its simplest form and so the most amenable to efforts to decipher it.
However I wonder how easy it is to distinguish between labels and non-labels in whichever file the complete text in stored. Presumably single word labels could be viewed as sentences or paragraphs with only one word in them. Then I don't know if it is easy to get hold of the source code for the various tests the seem as possibly being relevant and modifying the code to run just for the labelese subset; reproducing all the code could prove to be quite a hassle, so it would be nice if I can avoid that. I don't doubt this is more difficult to do than my description, but at some stage, when I have the time, I would like execute as many relevant tests as possible on labelese.(It may at times be unclear as to what is sentence text and what constitute single word labels).
I have not worked yet with the Voynich text file (s) or database or however else the text is stored and am pretty ignorant on EVA etc. However I am perfectly happy working with code, databases etc. so I am not daunted by that.
Any opinions on how easy/hard it will be to do this given the way data is stored and existing code made available, would be worth knowing.
|
|
|
|