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Solved again and again ... |
Posted by: ReneZ - 21-06-2019, 03:41 PM - Forum: News
- Replies (32)
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A new paper by G. Cheshire just appeared:
"The Algorithmic Method for Translating MS408 (Voynich). Gerard E. Cheshire, June 2019".
It translates portfolio 53 (right) using a host of romance languages.
I got it through academia.edu and I suspect there will be a link at his "science survey" site.
It also mentions a paper I had not yet seen:
3. Consonants & Vowels, Castles & Volcanoes: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
I don't know if that link is safe.
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VM TTR values |
Posted by: Koen G - 14-06-2019, 12:45 PM - Forum: Analysis of the text
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Since the main discussion is going on in the off-topic section, I thought it might be worthwhile to make a separate thread for discussion of the VM values.
Once again I'd like to thank everyone who helped me out, many interventions were required for me to get to this point. I would be so hopeless without you guys.
I redid everything using Rene's ZL2a file (more spaces) as recommended by Nablator. From this I isolated five sections:
- Herbal A
- Herbal B
- Q13
- Small plants (with labels removed, so only the paragraphs)
- Q20
I then used Nablator's code to calculate the following MATTR window sizes: 2, 3, 4, 5, 10, 20, 50, 100, 500.
Using my corpus of 471 texts, I calculated mean and stdev for each window. This allowed me to normalize the values.
The result is as follows:
Naamloos-2 kopiëren.gif (Size: 26.88 KB / Downloads: 361)
As you can see, both B-sections (orange and red) behave similarly.
Herbal A and the paragraphs from the small plants behave very similarly as well. Is the latter entirely A?
And Q13 has overall much lower values. The way I read the graph, this appears to be the result of larger distance repetitions. Below 5, it starts to approach the other sections again.
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Glyph combinations across word breaks in the Voynich Manuscript |
Posted by: Emma May Smith - 03-06-2019, 06:24 PM - Forum: News
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New article in Cryptologia:
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
Abstract:
Quote:The text of the Voynich manuscript exhibits relationships between neighboring words that have not formally been explored. The last and first glyphs of adjacent words show some dependency, and certain glyph combinations are more or less likely to occur. The patterns of preferences for glyph combinations demonstrate the existence of higher-level glyph groups. The behavior of the glyph combinations may arise due to changes in a glyph caused by its neighbor.
(I'm happy to discuss the philosophy of open access academic publishing with anybody. Please PM me.)
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17r and a very controversial subject matter f.g.m. |
Posted by: Monica Yokubinas - 02-06-2019, 11:09 PM - Forum: Imagery
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f17r translation of the plant is not about a plant. I always work out the translation before finding a plant, and this one is talking about something even today the UN passed a resolution on because it causes "irreparable and irreversible abuse" I took the right side words and the words in the plant and moved to the bottom, because they did not fit where placed if you were going straight across.
Beloved weaver, a binding oath, of sexual wrongdoing and harm, meddle in wrath. Adorn the Gapar (term used for female anatomy from an unused root meaning ‘to house in”). My brother will be exalted of slime/secretions taking action of life and dew seduced sweep up heap. According to the rune, weaver sing, my brother is the Lord of slime/secretions and God of taking action. God listens and comes down from his throne to answer, take advantage of the heap, a supernatural event, to exist_*_. Sweep then aggressively truthful then spin the grey head and thoroughly long live to vex. To sweep lord beauty to vex, beauty and crown to live favored. Respect and honor like darkness to make happen beauty, and crown shout for joy, beauty because he will reap what he sows in this truce, friend lord. Rest fair basket. Alas, hated one, this removed. There is a reason for it, my own Lord forever. She is bound to husband home oath. Sing a joyful song fair basket. Friend beauty to make happen, dew seduced and fornication then brother elevated. Long live noble wise atonement a lofty shrine. Heathen weaver snatch up. Female daughters wings removed and vulva from basket form. Long live to make intercession weaver. Moisture to sweep, not grown up, rest.
two key words in the Voynich Manuscript: one is ‘to spin’ create, preserve, or fashion and the other is ‘weaver” the person doing the creating, the yaya or grandmother, the wise one, the matriarch of the family. In this instance there are 2 weavers the beloved and the goy or Heathen. So who is the villan?
Note the red and bleeding 'eyes' in the root system, the 3 flowers at the top of the plant, and the 12 leaves. (most girls were cut around the time of their dowry, before the first menses. It was tradition like a right of passage. So is she advocating for cutting or possibly protecting the girl?
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[split] f6r plant |
Posted by: -JKP- - 01-06-2019, 02:55 AM - Forum: Imagery
- Replies (27)
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(01-06-2019, 02:17 AM)Monica Yokubinas Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view....
I have been consistent in my methodology for example You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. is a pitcher plant and here is the translation:
...
(01-06-2019, 02:00 AM)-JKP- Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I don't think it looks like a pitcher plant (in fact, I think I know what plant it is), but if it is a pitcher plant, then are you saying the VMS (or the VMS plants) originated in tropical Asia or Madagascar?
(01-06-2019, 01:43 AM)Monica Yokubinas Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.amazing what we all think we know... never stop learning. You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
I know you wanted to prove me wrong, Monica, but Drosophyllum lusitanicum is not a pitcher plant.
It is related to the sundew plants (a different kind of carnivorous plant), several of which are native to Europe. It's not surprising that it would be found on the Iberian peninsula. Look at the long thin tendrils, similar to many European sundew (Drosera) plants:
Image Credit: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
You can't call that a pitcher plant. It doesn't have pitchers. You can't say Drosophyllum is a European pitcher plant because it's not directly related to Nepenthes (eastern pitcher plants) or the Sarracenias (the New World pitcher plants). Here are some pics of pitcher plants. They are distinctly different from sundews:
Image Credit: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
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F82r as the Black Sea |
Posted by: Linda - 31-05-2019, 08:27 PM - Forum: Imagery
- Replies (11)
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I am referring to the bottom half of the page You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. with regard to this dentification of the Black Sea.
1375 Cresques Abraham, 1380 Guillem Soler, 1436 Andrea Biancho
1489 Albino de Canepa, 16th century Ottoman, 21st century NASA
I chose these because they best show the features i want to correlate with the vms imagery.
Note that the Sea of Azov is not drawn on You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. thus Crimea does not stand out, it is simply shoreline. It is also more to the east than truly situated. The northwest shore has been straightened and turned somewhat. This could be commentary, since so far i have not found a map with Crimea too far to the east, but there are many to be found too far to the west, even centuries after the carbon dating.
1656
Actually there are two nymphs situated on or near Crimea, it is just skewed, what is southwest facing in reality is shown as pointing south in the vms drawing. Also, the blue port is part of the shape of the waterbody in the vms, although it appears as though it is not due to the colour change and the nymph herself, ie the nymph makes it seem like the lake ends to the left of her, rather than on the right. However the nebuly line does continue around this feature. Therefore the Crimean peninsula is not drawn as far to the east as it may seem. This nebuly effect of the shore also hides some of the port /river imagery. It is somewhat reminiscent of the bubbly effect in some portolan maps of the Black Sea.
Here are what i believe are the most likely identifications of each part of the vms drawing.
The far left nymph is standing in a river port, it would be the Danube delta. The 'thing' is to show that there is another way to get here, and points the way she came, via the Danube, but we got here via the route through the Sea of Marmora. Notably, the nymph i identify as Genoa on You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. holds one too.
The next feature clockwise is a mountain river with another joining it at an angle. This corresponds to the Dniester. You can see the double forks of the 1489 version, and a 'Y' on the 1436 version where the straight part does indeed show to come from a mountain. The 16th century version also shows the mountain connection. The satellite version is actually the closest match, i think. The river rises in the Carpathian mountains.
The nymph to the right of this stands in a river port, and this would be the Dnieper river, shown as a delta in all the nautical charts.
The next nymph is located on the southern shore of Crimea, likely in the area of Genoese colonization, denoted by the Genoese flags on the nautical charts.
It is also mountanous there. I think i am starting to understand the nymphs more. They are the Earth. In particular they are newer earth. Mountains which have formed, rivers flowing down bring silt and create deltas, forming new land where there used to be just water, etc.. That is why they are drawn as pregnant, they all are in the process of giving birth to new earth, whether through uplift, erosion, or perhaps it is the formation of cities which is referenced.
Next is the Cimmerian Bosphorus, or Kerch Strait, in the form of a spray which then drips down. This would be the connection to the Sea of Azov, if it were drawn here. The spray motif seems a bit like the spray coming from the facing page imagery of f81v, which i think is depicting the Sea of Azov, except it is backwards in its presentation, both preceding the Black Sea page and presented in mirror image. I think this has to do with staying in Europe for this part of the tour., but coming back to it to continue the tour of Asia. Perhaps this may be seen as my attempting to fit the imagery to my story, but a) You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. looks a lot like the sea of Azov, especially in a low water state, the number of nymphs basically works with the number of points on the shore. b) there is nothing between the Sea of Marmora and the Black Sea which it could be instead, c) The Sea of Azov would otherwise be missing. So i am going with either obfuscation or poetic licence as explanation for the imagery being out of order. It is sometimes thought of as being part of the Black Sea, and due to its northern situation, both seas were often drawn upside down on maps, so that may also have to do with the ordering, although it does not follow the flow of water per se. The Sea of Azov was thought by early geographers to be as big as the Black Sea, which may explain why it is drawn so large as well.
Next, at the far right, is the Rioni River, or as the ancient Greeks called it, the Phasis river. Again it is hard to know what time period we are talking about, but Herodotus thought it to be the deliniation between Europe and Asia. The river rises in the Caucasus mountains.
On the left again, at the bottom, we have a nymph representing Thracia or Constantinople, depending on the time period. She is pointing at a larger nymph's abdomen. She points similarly to the nymph in You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. where i took it to mean the people of those places could see each other. I think this is analogous to being able to see Bithynia's highest point from 70 km away in Istanbul.
This again leads me to liken the bellies to mountains. And the outstretched foot, perhaps that is sea level, and why so many nymphs seem buried or submerged, although i had a thought that may indicate time, ie how long the area has been populated.
I think the next two nymphs stand for Amasra and its great island, given one label, and the fact that i have lately interpreted bodiless nymphs as islands, or she could represent Heraclea Pontica., and together they stand for Paphlagonia. Amasra at one point became part of the Kingdom of Trebizond, then fell under the rule of the Republic of Genoa, until the Ottoman takeover. It is also interesting that the original Paphlagonians are thought to have left the area with some Trojan survivors to populate Venetia. Perhaps some of this explains the ring/mirror and/or crown.
I think the next three cover the region of Pontus denoting perhaps Sinope, which is situated at the bump in the middle,
Ordu, and Trabzond. Again there is a Genoan connection.
I think the top of the page relates to taking either the Dniester, Dnieper or the Don river up to the Bay of Finland, through the Baltic to the North Sea, following the shore of Europe back down to Lisbon, where the nymph sleeps, perhaps this is home, or home away from home. There were various nationalities of cartographers living in Lisbon at the time of the vms carbon dating.
I found the 1489 map interesting as the upside down tents are very reminiscent of the embellishments in the river shown at the top of the vms page. I think the embellishments stand for mountains. In the Genoese map of 1457, it shows the Dniester river as the one going to the Baltic, past mountains. The Fra Mauro map of about the same time period shows the same, in a different but direct route from the Dniester, past mountains although alternate routes are also shown involving any of the three rivers i have mentioned.
These maps of Genoese and Venetian routes also shows it to be the Dniester, and is proof of concept insofar as such travelling had been accomplished. However it requires an understanding of the Hanseatic league routes. Perhaps such info was gained through sharing of knowledge at the Council of Constance. The last image in this set shows the origins of the Council attendees.
The page opposite this one, f82v, shows again European areas we had seen before in the tour, including the Spanish shoreline and the Alps. I believe the page meant to follow that one is f75r, being the Caspian Sea, which starts the Asia and Africa part of the tour.
In terms of the complete tour, my suggested page order is 76, 80, 84, 77, 78, 81, 82, 75, 79, 83
Let me know what you think about these correlations. There may be mythologies involved, many of these places were named in the Iliad and other works as well.
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