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| Analysis of the relation between words within the Voynich Manuscript |
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Posted by: Torsten - 08-11-2022, 08:28 AM - Forum: News
- Replies (2)
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There is a new paper published about the VMS: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
The author is Andrew Caruana from the University of Malta. (Note: Andrew Caruana will present a paper under the same name at the Conference @ Malta)
The paper compares word pairs and their frequencies in natural languages and the VMS. The paper comes to the conclusion:
Code: the results for the Voynich were a little more even with the randomised version only scoring roughly half as much as the normal variant. This may suggest that the manuscript is not randomly generated text, however it could point to the Voynich being some sort of code or cipher.
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| How Many Scribes? |
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Posted by: Torsten - 03-11-2022, 11:19 PM - Forum: Analysis of the text
- Replies (4)
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In her paper "How Many Glyphs and How Many Scribes? Digital Paleography and the Voynich Manuscript" [Lisa Fagin Davis, 2020, You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.] Lisa Fagin Davis identifies five different scribes. (Note: Back in 2020 I had already You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. about some odd points in Lisa Davis paper.)
As evidence for different scribes some different shapes for the glyphs EVA-k and EVA-iin/in are listed. The paper lists numerous smaller variations for both glyphs like "a very slight foot at the base of the second vertical" for EVA-k. However, the text is handwritten and it is not expected that each character is exactly written the same every time. In a response Lisa Davis explained this as: "My conclusions are based on tendencies visible over the length of a scribe's corpora" (see this You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.).
However, as one of the main differences for EVA-k the paper lists the shape of the crossbar for EVA-k:
"Is the glyph formed by one or two strokes? Is the crossbar bowed, or is it horizontal? This is directly related to the previous question, since a bowed bar tends to result from a smooth directional change from the top of the first vertical, while a horizontal crossbar is the result of lifting the quill after completing the vertical." [Davis 2020, p. 172].
For <qokalshedy> and <okaral> in f103r.P.19 and P.20 it is indeed possible to observe that the crossbar in EVA-k crosses the first vertical (You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.).
This can only mean that in this cases of EVA-k the glyph was indeed formed in two strokes. However, the paper assigns You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. to scribe 3 and mentions that a bowed crossbar would indicate that the glyph was formed in one stroke. This is obviously not the case here. But also for other pages assigned to scribe 3 it is possible to find instances for EVA-k written in two strokes (see for instance <kaiin> in f104r.P.32). In my eyes this result is interesting and requires at least an explanation.
Also interesting is figure 4 on p. 171 (see Davis 2020, p 171). This figure shows an image of the software Archetype. Davis writes that she used Archetype for identifying the scribes. I have installed my own copy of Archetype and therefore I know that the number in the "Other Images"-Tab plus one is the number of pages uploaded to Archetype. Figure 4 shows as number 43 which means that 44 pages were uploaded to Archetype. However, the VMS contains far more pages than just 44. There are more than 200 pages which include text. Unfortunately the paper didn't explain why only 44 pages were uploaded into Archetype.
However, earlier in 2020 Davis presented her findings in a talk at the BSA Annual Meeting. At minute 25 the video shows a slide with four groups for EVA-k (see You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.). In this slide in the column to the right 6 instances of EVA-k from the stars section are shown. A little bit odd is that all 6 instances belong to folio 114r. Did that mean that Davis uploaded only a few folios for the Stars section into Archetype since she was starting with the assumption that all folios of a certain quire belong to the same scribe? But this wouldn't fit with her statement that "conclusions are based on tendencies visible over the length of a scribe's corpora".
Even more odd is that also the first column contains an instance of EVA-k associated with scribe 3. It's labeled as f94r. However, the other glyphs in the first column belong to folio 10r, 89r, 88r and 93v and the paper associates them with scribe 1. Also the second column lists glyphs associated with two different scribes: this are f40v (scribe 2) and You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. (associated to scribe 4). Unfortunately Davis only mentions the similarity for EVA-k for scribe 1 and 3 but is not mentioning or discussing the similarity she sees for EVA-k for the scribes 2 and 4.
The third column contains the biggest group of glyphs. They are all associated to scribe 4. For scribe 4 nearly all folios from the Zodiac pages were uploaded into Archetype. This rises the question why Davis has uploaded all the pages for the Zodiac section but not for the other quires? Davis explains the importance of the Zodiac section at minute 31. She quotes Renè Zandbergens website: "The very common character combination qo is almost completely absent in the zodiac pages and the rosettes page, but appears everywhere else" (see You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. minute 31 and Zandbergen 2019: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.). Davis argues that the zodiac pages are important since the zodiac pages and the rosette page correspond exactly to the pages she has identified as scribe 4 (You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.). Davis sees this as confirmation of her work.
Unfortunately Davis did only mentioned the fact that the Zodiac pages behave statistical differently at the BSA Annual Meeting but not in her paper published later in 2020. In the paper Davis writes "I have sent my preliminary results to a professor of linguistics who is running several different linguistical analyses on the Voynich as part of a long-term class project and her own research" (Davis 2022, p. 179). This is unfortunate since someone not aware of the BSA Annual Meeting can get this way the impression that Davis wasn't knowing of the qo-pattern while identifying Scribe four. In 2021 Claire Bowern published together with Sterneck and Annie Polish the paper "Topic Modeling in the Voynich Manuscript" and as expected Bowern writes: "the astrological section is always clustered next to hand 4, although it is worth noting that both hand and illustrative topic classifications come from Lisa Fagin Davis’s work" [Sterneck et. al. 2021, p. 15 You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.]. Needless to say that a reference to Renè Zandbergens statement about the Zodiac pages is also not given in Claire Bowerns paper.
In a recent You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. Lisa Davis explains why Scientific evidence-based methodologies are important in Voynich research. Decide yourself if her paper in Manuscript studies is indeed based on scientific evidence.
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| [Poll for Mark Knowles] Explanation for Voynich text? |
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Posted by: Koen G - 31-10-2022, 07:22 PM - Forum: Voynich Talk
- Replies (21)
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I am making this thread for Mark, who (due to a forum issue?) is unable to make a poll. This is what he writes:
Quote:What in your opinion is the most likely explanation for the nature of the Voynich text? I appreciate that you might think there are a variety of possibilities, but by the nature of the poll I want your top guess/choice. If you prefer you can list the items in order of likelihood as you see it. If you are unhappy with that you could put percentage likelihoods or probabilities for each option.
1) It is written in a known or unknown natural language in an unknown script
2) It is written in a cipher
3) It is meaningless text
4) It is written in some system of shorthand
5) It is written in an invented language
6) Other - please specify
These are the standard options that occur to me, though you may suggest others and I will change the poll according.
As someone who would firmly answer (2) in this poll I am curious how many others think the same. This is interesting to me as determining how many people have a similar perspective to my own gives me and idea of what level of interest there is in cryptography in the Voynich community.
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| Vord paradigm tool |
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Posted by: Hermes777 - 29-10-2022, 12:02 AM - Forum: Analysis of the text
- Replies (98)
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This is the template I am using for exploring vords and the Voynich text. It is based on Thomas Coon's Voynich Vord Verifier, compared, contrasted, expanded and amended from various other paradigms available. It is a study tool, not an attempt to replicate the exact procedure by which the text was generated. It identifies some persistent patterns and allows the study of vords that do and do not conform. Non-conforming vords - and the ways they deviate from the pattern - are the most interesting.
The basis of the model is that the default vord (QOKEEDY) is tripartite with each of its three parts consisting of a simple consonant-vowel structure. Thus: qo - kee - dy.
In a default vord there are three parts, prefix, stem and suffix, here marked as compartments A and B and C. A combination consonant-vowel (CV) is made from the available glyphs in each compartment.
However, in most cases vords are consonant final, so there is an extra class of consonant final glyphs in compartment C. These typically require a word-break after them.
There is also a class of glyphs in compartment A that allow vowel/consonant prefixes.
We can speak of the first consonant, second consonant, third consonant and final consonant. And the first, second and third vowels, with [y] being a final vowel in this model.
Bench gallows (KTPF) are not shown but can intrude into any of the benched glyphs (in red).
Vords can be made from the compartments A+B+C, A+B, B+C or A+C, or sometimes just one compartment, most often compartment C. A surprising number of vords can be made just from compartment C, daiin for instance.
Often, vords could be made to comply to the template in several ways. There is then the question as to which of the possibilities is most consistent and viable.
In many cases, non-conforming vords only deviate from the paradigm in a single compartment or in a single glyph, sometimes a single stroke. Abberations are few.
The objective, though, is not to try to match as many vords as possible. The model works well enough. It is a remarkable fact that it works at all. It is especially useful to observe the behaviour of non-conforming vords and to see what has happened to make them deviate from the flow.
Here is a star label from pg 68r: DOARO
We see it conforms and is parsed: do - a - ro. It deviates in that compartment B - the middle stem - lacks a consonant, and there is no final consonant in compartment C, although final -o is acceptable.
Here is a non-conforming vord, from the red-inked text on 67r: LYSHYKCHY
We can locate the problem. An additional [k] has intruded into the consonants in compartment C. Otherwise, it conforms. (It is an interesting vord with an interesting symmetry. It seems the [k] has been imported into compartment C - against the rules - in order to make the symmetry.) It is parsed in this model: ly - kshy - kchy.
Needless to say the paradigm is a work in progress. It can be improved, but it can only ever be a useful approximation.
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| New Information on the early history of Beinecke 408? |
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Posted by: Helmut Winkler - 21-10-2022, 04:21 PM - Forum: News
- Replies (13)
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There is a lecure in December in the Staatsbibliothek zu Berlin
Kaiser Rudolf II. und das „väßl mitt allerlai selzamen büchern“. Neue Erkenntnisse zur älteren Besitzgeschichte des Voynich-Manuskriptes
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Seems someone found sone documents about the early history of the ms.
Source: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
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| I purchased a high quality facsimile from Manuscriptum |
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Posted by: Odd_Honey_WV - 21-10-2022, 12:57 AM - Forum: Voynich Talk
- Replies (11)
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Hello everyone, I am a new member to the forum and I decided to join because I decided to purchase one of the more high-end facsimiles of the Voynich manuscript and wanted to show it off for the public record. I did see some talk about the Manuscriptum facsimile from searching the site but from what I've seen it doesn't seem anyone here has one, and Google only wants to show off the much more expensive Siloe version, so I figured a post was in order.
I had initially hoped to snag a Siloe facsimile; I suppose I'm new to the realm of book collecting as it hadn't occurred to me that was the sort of thing you could even get. I had already purchased the very reasonably priced Clemens photo facsimile, but the idea of having something that true to life piqued my interest. I reached out and to my dismay was quoted an asking price of nearly $10,000. But, as fortune would have it, there was another option.
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This is the one I have purchased, for $3,000 USD. That includes both shipping to the US and taxes. Still quite a lot for a book but it was the best deal I was going to get for something like this so I jumped on it. And today Ill be showing it off and giving a review. I should state upfront that I am complete novice when it comes to this sort of thing; this is the first and only facsimile I own, so there is a lot that I'm not going to know or even be aware of, and feel free to ask my anything you are curious about that I skip over.
![[Image: hDxBk4d.jpg]](https://i.imgur.com/hDxBk4d.jpg)
![[Image: zK0h32Z.jpg]](https://i.imgur.com/zK0h32Z.jpg)
![[Image: eqEkOTH.jpg]](https://i.imgur.com/eqEkOTH.jpg)
![[Image: VBt8lFR.jpg]](https://i.imgur.com/VBt8lFR.jpg)
![[Image: O9uScv7.jpg]](https://i.imgur.com/O9uScv7.jpg)
The book itself came with a decorative box with a compass in it for some reason. It smelled strongly of finish, and while of decent quality there were a few spots where the wood was splintering off. Overall I would say the build quality is good. Inside were a pair of white gloves (that i had already put on for the taking of the next pictures), a folder with a certificate of authenticity, and the manuscript wrapped in a numbered leather sheet with a wax seal. The straps are raw hide (I think) and are tied in the back , so i was able to remove the seal without breaking it and keep it in the folder with the certificate.
![[Image: E5buZIp.jpg]](https://i.imgur.com/E5buZIp.jpg)
![[Image: gEMwWZK.jpg]](https://i.imgur.com/gEMwWZK.jpg)
![[Image: PeLPeCn.jpg]](https://i.imgur.com/PeLPeCn.jpg)
![[Image: vyySTEI.jpg]](https://i.imgur.com/vyySTEI.jpg)
And now for the main attraction.
![[Image: y3tyMZi.jpg]](https://i.imgur.com/y3tyMZi.jpg)
![[Image: bpZOs37.jpg]](https://i.imgur.com/bpZOs37.jpg)
![[Image: fEr6KMC.jpg]](https://i.imgur.com/fEr6KMC.jpg)
![[Image: 76Wigjn.jpg]](https://i.imgur.com/76Wigjn.jpg)
Lets start with points where I'm pretty sure they deviate from the original. This book is a hard back (or at least feels like one), whereas I think the original MS was limp vellum. And it has those tie strings that the Siloe facsimile also saw fit to include, not sure why; I haven't seen anything saying the original MS had them. I know the real manuscript doesn't retain its original binding, maybe this is more normal for the time when it would have been produced?
![[Image: ZLEnIEr.jpg]](https://i.imgur.com/ZLEnIEr.jpg)
![[Image: i1YCKys.jpg]](https://i.imgur.com/i1YCKys.jpg)
![[Image: wssjONy.jpg]](https://i.imgur.com/wssjONy.jpg)
The website says the cover is bound in natural calf parchment and sewn with cotton threads, which as far as I know is true and correct to the original. The pages are printed on Fedrigoni Pergamenata, a type of paper that superficially simulates vellum. I don't know what vellum feels like, especially 600 year old vellum like in the original MS, but I purchased some modern vellum from etsy and the pages are pretty similar. Not exactly but close enough for layman like myself.
The book is stiff, it doesn't lay open on its own and sometimes feels like it doesn't want to open at all. I have thumbed through it a couple times in its entirety at this point and have tried to gently open it to a certain extend while doing so, trying not to accidentally damage it.
The book simulates the damage to the original MS fairly well. Most of it in done through printing, like the water stains and discolorations, but they have taken the time to cut the shapes of some of the more irregular pages (by hand with a scalpel) and include holes and sutures present in some of the pages (without the thread, tho).
![[Image: GWAc920.jpg]](https://i.imgur.com/GWAc920.jpg)
![[Image: rGAfnra.jpg]](https://i.imgur.com/rGAfnra.jpg)
And of course the fold outs are present. Not much to say on those that hasn't all ready, other than that the rosette is a bit of a struggle with the pages being stiff, and you can see that one middle corner that isn't bending quite right. I'm probably not going to be opening it regularly.
![[Image: zLG7hq6.jpg]](https://i.imgur.com/zLG7hq6.jpg)
And finally, here is the certificate with a little more info.
Thank you all so much for reading, and if you have any questions please comment below and I'll be sure to answer.
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| Oswald von Wolkenstein |
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Posted by: R. Sale - 19-10-2022, 11:02 PM - Forum: Voynich Talk
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The biography of Oswald von Wolkenstein is an interesting connection of heraldry and history. Initially it was the name and the heraldry. Perhaps there is a preferred interpretation, but it seemingly ‘translates’ into “Cloudstone”. And it is further represented in the heraldic insignia with the use of a ‘nebuly’ line, having a blazon such as: Per bend nebuly, argent et gules. White on top and red below. The heraldic shield is included in the last two images.
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The heraldic terms, ‘nebuly’ and ‘gewolkt’, are both derived from references to clouds and mists. The use of this pattern is surely based on heraldic canting. At least it reveals the first part of the family surname. It indicates that the use of this interpretation would be well-known in the “heraldic community”.
In the early examples of the Wolkenstein heraldic insignia, the nebuly line is a ‘plain’ line, in contrast to a later example where the individual crests and troughs of the nebuly line have been given the “scallop-shell treatment”. This is a splendid artistic technique by which an extended nebuly line can be made to look like a line of fluffy, scallop-shelled clouds. Cloud bands or Wolkenbands are historically significant and relevant to several VMs investigations. The cloud band in the VMs central rosette is an example of the “scallop-shell treatment”. A series of bumps, like a series of arches, either across the top and/or bottom of the nebuly line, OR up, and down the whole length of each individual crest and trough.
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This technique, to run a single line of arches all along the nebuly line, has a problem in that it reverses between one side of the nebuly line and the other. Crests that appear rounded on one side leave troughs that are pointy on the other side. Invected on the top side, engrailed on the bottom. This was rejected in art, in heraldry and in the VMs examples. Instead, the orientation is reversed for each trough to maintain the points inward, scallop-shell pattern. It seems to be the standard practice, which the VMs follows.
So, if scalloped, invected lines are used in artistry, and heraldry, what about the occurrence of engrailed lines in heraldry and the VMs. Though any use of the engrailed or invected line is uncommon, the engrailed cross, with points out, is predominant. Otherwise, it occurs in a border or as a bend, but that seems to be the limit of usage in the heraldic texts of the 15th century. What the VMs does in the tub patterns of the three Pisces and Aries pages provides examples of engrailed lines running horizontally across the pattern. While the use of such a pattern is valid, there don’t yet seem to be any relevant chronological examples.
That’s the thing about VMs investigation, every bit of hopeful inquiry leads directly to a wall. Nebuly lines and invected lines are fine in cloud bands and cosmic boundaries, but the VMs use of engrailed lines is all messed up, providing examples of things that did not exist at the time. How does that happen – that the valid and the flawed are combined? Are any of these VMs interpretations valid? Do VMs illustrations contain factual information or nothing more that random markings?
On three pages, the VMs presents several examples of engrailed lines running horizontally across different tub patterns, The lines go back and forth, not up and down or round and round. The devil is always in the details. If they went up and down, that’s probably nothing. But if they went round and round, that’s definitely something. An engrailed border distinguishes the heraldic insignia of the Duke of Berry, who is previously tied to the provenance of BNF Fr. 565 and the investigation of VMs cosmic structure.
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