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Welcome, Guest You have to register before you can post on our site. Username/Email:    Password    Remember me Search Forums (Advanced Search) Online Users There are currently 330 online users. » 11 Member(s) | 314 Guest(s) Applebot, Bing, DuckDuckGo, Google, Yandex, Aga Tentakulus, dashstofsk, Dobri, Lissu, NLeseul, Pirou Latest Threads Favorite Plant Tournament... Forum: Voynich Talk Last Post: bi3mw 14 minutes ago » Replies: 2 » Views: 39 voynich dot net and its f... Forum: News Last Post: proto57 1 hour ago » Replies: 5 » Views: 321 Favorite Plant Tournament... Forum: Voynich Talk Last Post: MarcoP 1 hour ago » Replies: 20 » Views: 1,127 New Theory: The Voynich M... Forum: Analysis of the text Last Post: nablator 7 hours ago » Replies: 14 » Views: 463 Origin of the Shield Shap... Forum: Imagery Last Post: Dobri Today, 01:41 AM » Replies: 97 » Views: 3,924 Why not positional variat... Forum: Analysis of the text Last Post: extent_of_foxes Today, 01:21 AM » Replies: 47 » Views: 7,493 Pisces (Folio 70v) and th... Forum: Astrology Last Post: Dobri Yesterday, 09:05 PM » Replies: 24 » Views: 1,716 Favorite Plant Tournament... Forum: Voynich Talk Last Post: MarcoP Yesterday, 06:47 PM » Replies: 4 » Views: 153 Announcing Voynich Manusc... Forum: News Last Post: Koen G Yesterday, 01:03 PM » Replies: 14 » Views: 1,471 A method I have made to t... Forum: Analysis of the text Last Post: project963 09-05-2025, 08:26 PM » Replies: 73 » Views: 5,713

The claimed Voynich page Posted by: -JKP- - 02-12-2016, 03:36 PM - Forum: Imagery - Replies (7) Unfortunately, I didn't download the image and I didn't bookmark the page, but ReneZ uploaded an interesting mention some months ago of a "Voynich page" which the owner feels is authentic (or authentically old, I can't remember which)—of one of the large-plant drawings. The instant I saw it, it was obvious to me that it was not drawn by the Voynich illustrator and the person who had copied the text didn't fully understand Voynichese glyph forms, so I basically forgot about it until a few minutes ago when it suddenly hit me why there was something eerily familiar about it. I can't find the original picture anywhere on the Net so I can't compare them to check if I remember it correctly, but it struck me that it is similar to a specific style and so perhaps was done around the same time. Maybe it's one of the drawings that was copied and sent to one of the potential decipherers, since most of the owners of the VMS were reluctant to let the original out of their hands. If so, then it would definitely form part of the provenance of the manuscript. Does anyone know if there's still a link to the pic on the Web?   Rosettes page upper left corner Posted by: Karenina - 30-11-2016, 09:24 PM - Forum: Analysis of the text - Replies (20) Just a small question I can't find any answer to: is there is a word written in the upper left corner of the Rosettes page (left above the image of the sun)?   [split] male/female/uncertain? Posted by: -JKP- - 30-11-2016, 09:43 AM - Forum: Imagery - Replies (3) What about three categories... women, men, and uncertain?   The thing (80v & 82r) Posted by: VViews - 28-11-2016, 09:21 PM - Forum: Imagery - Replies (108) Hi everyone, I can't believe there isn't a specific thread about the thing yet... you know what I mean: the thing. Whatever it is, it must be pretty important since it is shown twice. I've heard it described as bellows, or as part of a flower or bud, or as spinning equipment. Sorry for not referencing that better, I can't remember who said what or when. I'm curious about everyone's opinions on this thing, and about the connections forum members may make with other objects. To get the ball rolling, and without much conviction, I'll present these eel traps: Luttrell Psalter (BL Add MS 42130) c1320-1340, f 181r.   The Equatorie of the Planetis cont'd Posted by: -JKP- - 28-11-2016, 03:59 PM - Forum: Imagery - Replies (4) VViews, I can't post to your interesting thread because it's in the library section, but the last image you posted reminded me of something I'd seen. Here is a physical embodiment of the curvy shapes in the drawing you posted, from an astrolabe designed in the 15th century by Fusoris. This example (I don't know if it's a reproduction or an original) is in the Adler Planetarium and Astronomy Museum:      The fairy tale of Aristotle and the seven elements Posted by: Davidsch - 27-11-2016, 05:20 PM - Forum: Provenance & history - Replies (16) original source: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. What if the VMS is a work based on, or discusses part of, the works of Aristotle? Where are the five elements he discussed found in the Voynich manuscript? Are they in the containers in the middle of the rosette page? 1. Earth, which is cold and dry; this corresponds to the modern idea of a solid. 2. Water, which is cold and wet; this corresponds to the modern idea of a liquid. 3. Air, which is hot and wet; this corresponds to the modern idea of a gas. 4. Fire, which is hot and dry; this corresponds to the modern ideas of plasma and heat. 5. Aether, which is the divine substance that makes up the heavenly spheres and heavenly bodies (stars and planets). In medieval times it was very well accepted that there are more celestial elements, spheres or layers. For example wikipedia mentions: "The Earth within seven celestial spheres, from Bede, De natura rerum, late 11th century".    Here for example are 7 paws, on Walter-f7r, Diagram of the terrestrial climate zones with the Riphaean mountains. "The circle [of the world] girded by the five celestial zones" (Quintus=Five) the You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Mountains – a mythical range of peaks thought to mark the boundary between Asia and Europe, and the Arctic and North temperate zones -- represented as seven abstract, colored silhouettes resembling triangular game-pieces. It is always a matter of what you count: the 8 spheres: Earth, Moon, Mercury, Venus, Sun, Mars, Jupiter, and Saturn.  Or just the seven: Moon, Mercury, Venus, Sun, Mars, Jupiter, and Saturn. Also often it's the question what is an element and what is not. Sometimes spheres and elements are mixed in literature, and there is no unity in that. You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. In the middle of the Rosette page you see the names of elements very clearly listed: a. daral b. opar c. opchees d. Shdy e. odal f. opy g. oteedy Yes, there are 7 names and 6 containers here! It seems that the author of the VMS added one element more than he drew?  Probably not. Look closely. What is dominantly between the containers? Is it the same substance that is very present in the balneo section, which is water? Or is it a presentation of the heaven, the cosmos? I think it is the latter, the cosmos, because it has 12 three-leaved endings. It almost looks like a blanket spread out between the six containers. You can not capture the cosmos in a container, that is the most logical explanation, and that is the reason the "blanket with stars on it" was drawn. If we now have 6 elements in the containers, and one is the cosmos. What is the description of the six basic appropriate elements? The seven western elements are:  Air, water, metal, aether, fire, wood, earth Would it be possible to define: daral, opar, opchees, Shdy, odal, opy, oteedy We now can assume that the middle word represents Shdy=cosmos. If those represent those seven words, what are the other words and how does this relate to the text? This being written, makes me also interested in the Nature manuscripts of Aristotle and the interpretation of those during medieval times, in relation to the VMS.   [split] Discussion about the word "Zodiac" Posted by: Diane - 27-11-2016, 01:10 AM - Forum: Voynich Talk - Replies (9) Anton, One of the interesting things about the Voynich diagrams relating to winds and stars is that they do not show any clear correlation to the usual "zodiac-planets-cardinal winds" mindset of the Latin European texts.  The so-called "zodiac" doesn't represent the zodiac creatures; there is no sign of the planets' inclusion apart from sun and moon - which seems to mean that astrology may not be a subject of the month-roundels as is usually presumed - and the winds on f.67v-1 are not the cardinal winds. For these and various other reasons, including the disposition of those curved lines on the famous diagram of f.68v-1 I was obliged to conclude that the sort of "text-book" astronomy-astrology characteristic of the Latin west does not inform the content of Beinecke MS 408 - and that the diagrams in the latter better agree with other traditions and customs-  chiefly those of the navigators. It is an interesting question as to when, and where, that information first entered the Latins' horizons and  I'm not sure that the question has ever been investigated in any depth.   The Voynich Pipes Posted by: Anton - 24-11-2016, 08:57 PM - Forum: Imagery - Replies (98) The set of the pipe-like objects in the left portion of f69v is remarkable. At first, I considered is as a candidate for another complete set of "Voynich objects", similar to what the "Voynich stars" of f68r1 and f68r2 comprise. However, this was quickly disproved by the fact that the Voynich pipe labels are not unique within this set. Namely, all of them are unique except okeod which presents itself three times instead of just one (which would be fine for the set to be a complete set). There is no "system" on the surface according to which okeod would appear. The long and short pipes are interleaved in the chart, but okeod does not relate to either of those exclusively. Instead, it twice in a row relates to short pipes, and once - to a long pipe. There is also no regularity in the placement of the labels okeod. The whole number of pipes is 28. That number has some possible associations. First of all, it is the so-called "perfect number". Next, it might point to the menstrual cycle, to the jewish solar cycle known as "machzor gadol" and to some other things which Wikipedia suggests but which do not look very relevant. So the question is, what would be a set that: - consists of 28 objects; - consists of objects of two alternating sorts; - contains mostly different objects, but one object is contained three times; - that latter object may belong to either sort. Is there any relation to machzor gadol identifiable? iconography and context Posted by: Davidsch - 24-11-2016, 02:52 PM - Forum: Voynich Talk - Replies (4) You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.a very good example of how you should analyse images within its context.   [or aiin] Posted by: Emma May Smith - 22-11-2016, 10:42 PM - Forum: Analysis of the text - Replies (18) According to voynichese.com, the word or occurs 366 times and the word aiin occurs 470 times. Simply by chance we should expect multiple instances where the two words occur adjacently. However, the phrase or aiin is much more common than aiin or. This suggests that its occurrence is important in some way. It could be a set phrase with a single meaning (such as parce que in French). It could also be a sign that one order is grammatical and the other is not. (Interestingly for my hypothesis that words are transformed at the beginning of lines, a few instances of sor aiin occur.) Although even two word phrases are not terrifically common, I wonder if any other two words show obvious signs of bias toward one specific order. It could be that we could use them to divide words into groups according to the positions they take in such phrases. First Previous Next Last