+- The Voynich Ninja (https://www.voynich.ninja)
+-- Forum: Voynich Research (https://www.voynich.ninja/forum-27.html)
+--- Forum: Imagery (https://www.voynich.ninja/forum-43.html)
+--- Thread: The Voynich Pipes (/thread-1161.html)
The Voynich Pipes - Anton - 24-11-2016
The set of the pipe-like objects in the left portion of f69v is remarkable. At first, I considered is as a candidate for another complete set of "Voynich objects", similar to what the "Voynich stars" of f68r1 and f68r2 comprise.
However, this was quickly disproved by the fact that the Voynich pipe labels are not unique within this set. Namely, all of them are unique except okeod which presents itself three times instead of just one (which would be fine for the set to be a complete set).
There is no "system" on the surface according to which okeod would appear. The long and short pipes are interleaved in the chart, but okeod does not relate to either of those exclusively. Instead, it twice in a row relates to short pipes, and once - to a long pipe. There is also no regularity in the placement of the labels okeod.
The whole number of pipes is 28. That number has some possible associations. First of all, it is the so-called "perfect number". Next, it might point to the menstrual cycle, to the jewish solar cycle known as "machzor gadol" and to some other things which Wikipedia suggests but which do not look very relevant.
So the question is, what would be a set that:
- consists of 28 objects;
- consists of objects of two alternating sorts;
- contains mostly different objects, but one object is contained three times;
- that latter object may belong to either sort.
Is there any relation to machzor gadol identifiable?
RE: The Voynich Pipes - Koen G - 24-11-2016
The pipes appear to be somewhat tilted and squeezed together to make them fit with a certain number into each of the eight sections of the "sky" in the centre. Starting clockwise, the numbers op pipes per section are:
5-4-4-3-3-3-3-3
The numbers of corresponding stars per section:
9-6-6-8-6-5-6?-6
I know nothing
RE: The Voynich Pipes - Anton - 24-11-2016
I wandered what was drawn first - the pipes or the star. Maybe the pipes were, because some rays of the star are unnaturally curved (compare with the star in the central part of f69v).
RE: The Voynich Pipes - Koen G - 24-11-2016
Yes, you are right, the star seems to bend and reach for the desired point. but the pipes are slanted as well. It looks as if the whole thing has been drawn to give each section a number of pipes. Or to make the arms of the star touch certain points. The observation remains that the design is remarkably - I would almost say purposefully - asymmetrical.
RE: The Voynich Pipes - Anton - 24-11-2016
I was wrong that okeod is the only repeating label here. Another one is okeody (or okeo dy) which occurs two times (long pipe both times).
RE: The Voynich Pipes - VViews - 24-11-2016
I wonder if these pipe labels truly are labels, or rather a continuous string of text that has been positioned in a way that looks like labels.
RE: The Voynich Pipes - Anton - 24-11-2016
Interesting suggestion.
I would also note that this folio exhibits the "suboptimal" way of placing labels. Normally, in the chart such as these, a person would position the beginning of the word close to the labeled object. In that way, he would be sure that he always has enough space to complete the word. Here, on the contrary, the endings of vords are closer to the objects (pipes) - and for some of them the space runs really short.
RE: The Voynich Pipes - Anton - 24-11-2016
Ah, there also those 28 Chinese Lunar mansions: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
(and not necessarily Chinese)
RE: The Voynich Pipes - VViews - 25-11-2016
Yes I mentioned that in the intro to thread about this whole bifolio (Quire 10 diagrams). Perhaps it would be good to merge the two threads? A lot of the discussions seem to overlap/ be relevant to both.
RE: The Voynich Pipes - Anton - 25-11-2016
(25-11-2016, 12:04 AM)VViews Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Yes I mentioned that in the intro to thread about this whole bifolio (Quire 10 diagrams). Perhaps it would be good to merge the two threads? A lot of the discussions seem to overlap/ be relevant to both.
No, I prefer to focus specifically on this pipe chart in this thread.
Exploring the mansions path, I checked about the first google reference to more or less contemporary magic source which turned to be Agrippa (You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.) and it occurred to me that the labels might serve not for names of the pipes, but for attributes thereof. Like, if those are mansions, then the labels may designate e.g. the things that those mansions do favor ("talismans" in the referenced weblink). I noted that, according to Agrippa (as he is explained in that site), several mansions can be talismans for the same thing. Like, four mansions are talismans for destruction, and two of them essentially mean the same thing ("destruction of somebody" is pretty the same as "destruction of someone").
Now, if mansions, why would they need long and short shapes?