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The fairy tale of Aristotle and the seven elements - Davidsch - 27-11-2016
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What if the VMS is a work based on, or discusses part of, the works of Aristotle?
Where are the five elements he discussed found in the Voynich manuscript?
Are they in the containers in the middle of the rosette page?
1. Earth, which is cold and dry; this corresponds to the modern idea of a solid.
2. Water, which is cold and wet; this corresponds to the modern idea of a liquid.
3. Air, which is hot and wet; this corresponds to the modern idea of a gas.
4. Fire, which is hot and dry; this corresponds to the modern ideas of plasma and heat.
5. Aether, which is the divine substance that makes up the heavenly spheres and heavenly bodies (stars and planets).
In medieval times it was very well accepted that there are more celestial elements, spheres or layers. For example wikipedia mentions: "The Earth within seven celestial spheres, from Bede, De natura rerum, late 11th century".
Here for example are 7 paws, on Walter-f7r, Diagram of the terrestrial climate zones with the Riphaean mountains.
"The circle [of the world] girded by the five celestial zones" (Quintus=Five)
![[Image: W73_000015_sap.jpg]](http://www.thedigitalwalters.org/Data/WaltersManuscripts/W73/data/W.73/sap/W73_000015_sap.jpg)
the You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Mountains – a mythical range of peaks thought to mark the boundary between Asia and Europe, and the Arctic and North temperate zones -- represented as seven abstract, colored silhouettes resembling triangular game-pieces.
It is always a matter of what you count: the 8 spheres: Earth, Moon, Mercury, Venus, Sun, Mars, Jupiter, and Saturn.
Or just the seven: Moon, Mercury, Venus, Sun, Mars, Jupiter, and Saturn.
Also often it's the question what is an element and what is not.
Sometimes spheres and elements are mixed in literature, and there is no unity in that.
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In the middle of the Rosette page you see the names of elements very clearly listed:
a. daral
b. opar
c. opchees
d. Shdy
e. odal
f. opy
g. oteedy
Yes, there are 7 names and 6 containers here!
![[Image: center-rosette-words-376x1024.jpg]](http://voynich.webpoint.nl/wp-content/uploads/center-rosette-words-376x1024.jpg)
It seems that the author of the VMS added one element more than he drew? Probably not.
Look closely. What is dominantly between the containers?
Is it the same substance that is very present in the balneo section, which is water?
Or is it a presentation of the heaven, the cosmos?
I think it is the latter, the cosmos, because it has 12 three-leaved endings. It almost looks like a blanket spread out between the six containers.
You can not capture the cosmos in a container, that is the most logical explanation, and that is the reason the "blanket with stars on it" was drawn.
If we now have 6 elements in the containers, and one is the cosmos.
What is the description of the six basic appropriate elements?
The seven western elements are: Air, water, metal, aether, fire, wood, earth
Would it be possible to define:
daral, opar, opchees, Shdy, odal, opy, oteedy
We now can assume that the middle word represents Shdy=cosmos.
If those represent those seven words, what are the other words and how does this relate to the text?
This being written, makes me also interested in the Nature manuscripts of Aristotle and the interpretation of those during medieval times, in relation to the VMS.
RE: The fairy tale of Aristotle and the seven elements - juergenw - 27-11-2016
Very interesting!
I also believe that Aristotle's work is represented in the VMS. For the Rosette folio (for which I discussed Elements and the resulting climate before) I read Aristotle's works on natural philosophy (the big and the small works actually) and compared these to other pre-socratic philosophers (also dealing with Elements) in order to clarify if the Rosette folio could be a representation of the Elements, Exhalations and their interaction. There are several works of Aristotle, but one is (to me) an excellent match: Meteorologica. Displaying Exhalations (dry and wet), two suns, the primary mover, the interaction/mixture of the four Elements. I suspect and suggest the Rosette map to be a visualisation of meteorological phenomena. I have nearly finished a summary of that which I'll share shortly (splitting the Rosette folio into micro-imagery and using Nick Pelling's block paradigm)
An excellent (and first major) commentary in English on Aristotle's Meteorologica is Malcolm Wilson's 'Structure and method in Aristotle's Meteorologica' (2013)
Another (secondary) source is Vladimir Jancovic 'Reading the Skies' (2001), whose introduction on Aristotle's Meteorologica describes pretty neatly some of the features - see the attached comparison (left the text and on the right some microimagery from the Rosette folio).
RE: The fairy tale of Aristotle and the seven elements - Davidsch - 28-11-2016
It seems I can not post in this thread, although thread is not closed, but I do not have permission.
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Wanted to write:
I became member at a later date, then this thread was made and never read this before,
but it seems we have (almost) the same ideas. The Paradise is new to me, and I find very interesting. That alone is worth further investigation.
RE: The fairy tale of Aristotle and the seven elements - Koen G - 28-11-2016
Maybe because it's in the library and we're not supposed to reply there, I guess only Mods and Editors can now. I first didn't realize this thread was in the library because it has quite a number of replies already.
RE: The fairy tale of Aristotle and the seven elements - Davidsch - 28-11-2016
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In the same center on the Rosette page, we see the 12 labels on the bottom ring which probably correspond with the 12 three-leaved endings on "the cosmos blanket".
The number twelve reminds of the 12 zodiac names. The labels read:
- ols
- ypal
- opydSh
- sShy
- dml
- dtedm
- opy
- ofdam
- ddasy
- otedy
- daindy
- sody
What does that mean?
RE: The fairy tale of Aristotle and the seven elements - juergenw - 28-11-2016
(28-11-2016, 03:58 PM)Davidsch Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.+-+-
In the same center on the Rosette page, we see the 12 labels on the bottom ring which probably correspond with the 12 three-leaved endings on "the cosmos blanket".
The number twelve reminds of the 12 zodiac names. The labels read:
... (shortened) ...
What ??! The word opy appears here again!
What does that mean?
I am pretty sure more people already checked that and wrote/discussed the 12-to-zodiac relationship for the rosette folio (not necessarily here at V ninja). The number 12 appears more often elsewhere and imho not necessarily needs to reflect the zodiac in a Rosette folio context. Other twelvesomes are: 12 tribes of Judah, 12 winds,...
RE: The fairy tale of Aristotle and the seven elements - Anton - 28-11-2016
As a sidenote, it is very probable that the guy was careful not to label shapes of his pictures directly, since the shape (in his opinion) would speak for itself, while naming it by an encrypted label would provide a clue to the decipherment. Hence it is quite likely that in many (if not most) cases labels do not stand for names of objects, but rather to some attributes. Like, an object may be a star (for example), but the label would not be the name of the star, but e.g. a word "good" or "bad" or "summer" or "winter" etc.
RE: The fairy tale of Aristotle and the seven elements - Davidsch - 29-11-2016
@juergenw: the argument: they must have done , or: other people must have done, is always a non-argument and does not add extra information.
If you could point to the specific research that would help more. My article is not really about 12. My article is about the elements and the found words were compared with the 12 labels. The first twelve thing that are obvious in the VMS are of course the 12 zodiac signs, there is no denial in that.
@Anton. That is a good point. Labels could mean something else. But, often the most obvious things are made too complex.
Also here on the forum. Why make it -a priori- more difficult than what we see, let's make it childishly simple: it is what we see: a picture and a label.
I prefer that as starting point and not the more complex scenarios.
An attribute is quite a good possibility so in this case, we could have 12 attributes. One of those also applies to the 7 names, or again,
attributes that, in my example, belong to the 6 containers and the "blanket".
Suppose we are looking for a short textlabel "opy", which is an attribute & also a name.
Something with a double meaning in that language. Short. Ending on -us perhaps.
Or it is an abbrevation of OPG. Which makes it impossible to solve. Ora Piano G... / Olio Porta/Porto Grass
I'm just thinking out loud here.
RE: The fairy tale of Aristotle and the seven elements - -JKP- - 29-11-2016
(29-11-2016, 11:56 AM)Davidsch Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view....
@Anton. That is a good point. Labels could mean something else. But, often the most obvious things are made too complex.
Also here on the forum. Why make it -a priori- more difficult than what we see, let's make it childishly simple: it is what we see: a picture and a label.
I prefer that as starting point and not the more complex scenarios.
...
Normally I would agree with you. I'm a great fan of Occam's razor, but in this instance, with so many people unsuccessfully trying to decipher the manuscript since the late 1500s, and most of them probably starting with the labels, I have some doubt that the labels are obvious and simple.
RE: The fairy tale of Aristotle and the seven elements - Davidsch - 29-11-2016
Yes, I hear you, and you can see I'm also doing complex research,
but don't wave initial simple deductions. Let's analyze and deduct
