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Welcome, Guest You have to register before you can post on our site. Username/Email:    Password    Remember me Search Forums (Advanced Search) Online Users There are currently 395 online users. » 4 Member(s) | 388 Guest(s) Applebot, Bing, Google, Dobri Latest Threads Origin of the Shield Shap... Forum: Imagery Last Post: Dobri 9 hours ago » Replies: 99 » Views: 4,078 Always impressive Forum: Fiction, Comics, Films & Videos, Games & other Media Last Post: Aga Tentakulus 10 hours ago » Replies: 14 » Views: 4,200 Solutions [discussion thr... Forum: Voynich Talk Last Post: davidd 11 hours ago » Replies: 55 » Views: 9,814 Why not positional variat... Forum: Analysis of the text Last Post: nablator Yesterday, 09:23 PM » Replies: 57 » Views: 7,713 Favorite Plant Tournament... Forum: Voynich Talk Last Post: Koen G Yesterday, 09:05 PM » Replies: 5 » Views: 146 f85v and 86(part): using ... Forum: Analysis of the text Last Post: oshfdk Yesterday, 08:21 PM » Replies: 36 » Views: 2,541 voynich dot net and its f... Forum: News Last Post: proto57 Yesterday, 01:55 PM » Replies: 5 » Views: 396 Favorite Plant Tournament... Forum: Voynich Talk Last Post: MarcoP Yesterday, 01:48 PM » Replies: 20 » Views: 1,182 New Theory: The Voynich M... Forum: Analysis of the text Last Post: nablator Yesterday, 07:57 AM » Replies: 14 » Views: 573 Pisces (Folio 70v) and th... Forum: Astrology Last Post: Dobri 10-05-2025, 09:05 PM » Replies: 24 » Views: 1,735

Puzzles of the Voynich Manuscript Posted by: davidjackson - 21-12-2016, 09:41 AM - Forum: News - Replies (3) From the blurb: "This illustrated guide to the Voynich Manuscript is targeted mainly at those who have recently come across the book and are wondering what all the fuss is about, and why, after more than a century of effort, nobody has cracked its code yet. It should also be useful as a set of tests for those who believe they may have cracked the code, so that they can see how their solution matches up against each of the puzzles or notable features described. And finally, it is hopefully of interest to those already familiar with the manuscript – perhaps they will find something new or thought provoking within." You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. A 69 page self-published book also available for Kindle which has just been published. It's written by long time research Julian Bunn whose Amazon author description reads: Julian is an English physicist living in Pasadena, California. He enjoys mechanical and electronic things, puzzles and sunshine.   The Voynich twitter feed Posted by: davidjackson - 19-12-2016, 11:38 PM - Forum: Fiction, Comics, Films & Videos, Games & other Media - Replies (1) This account presupposes the manuscript is just tech news and tweets it out. Rather bizarre, in a pleasing sort of way. You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.   Voynich Highlights 2016 Posted by: Anton - 18-12-2016, 12:31 AM - Forum: Voynich Talk - Replies (14) The year draws to a close, as every year will. It's time to cast a glance back and to highlight points in which Voynich studies have moved forward in one or another way. I can think of several "nominations" of "Voynich highlights". (We do not award any prizes, this is just for the sake of classification). "Voynich events" - notable events such as new books, conferences, sessions etc. "Voynich papers" - notable journal publications or perhaps blog posts which introduced academic novelty into Voynich studies. "Voynich discussions" - discussions and proposals with no decisive results as of yet, but of promising nature. And, finally, "Voynich advances" - this is for new discoveries in the field of VMS - that is, for decisive results bringing us forward. You will find my personal list below. Please note that I am not able even to follow this very forum in full, let alone each and every Voynich blog. So don't blame me for any omissions. Rather, please feel free to expand the list. The whole purpose of the thread is, of course, to provide our users with a brief review of achievements worth looking at. So, for me the things stand as follows (in no particular order). Voynich Events: 1. Being a modest person, I won't hesitate though to mention here the emergence of the Voynich Ninja forum. Technically it was created in 2015, but it was launched public only in early 2016. 2. The new Yale book with VMS scans and professional reviews, of course, is also a significant event in 2016. 3. I would also like to mention our VMBOK effort here. Although it's still in its infancy, I firmly believe in this initiative (even that I'm often lazy to participate). Voynich Papers: Can't really remember any publication that truly brought us forward. There was quite a number of interesting ones, but no decisive results have been obtained. Voynich Discussions: 1. You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.. Something definitely existing - but what's the underlay meaning/significance?.. Noone knows yet. 2. You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. and the developing discussion of the glyph construction principles. Excellent work done by Wladimir who observes and summarizes "unusual" glyphs and glyph combinations occurrences leads to re-assessing of our understanding of how the Voynich glyphs were intended to be constructed. The discussion is already much past the curve-line system as suggested by Brian back in 2015, but still needs systematization. 3. You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.. Although the result of the discussion is still indefinite, what is essential is that we were able to locate very close imagery parallels. So far, the thread has been lost in the poetic Latin, of which "pro salute hominum" happened to be the most clear, but (alas!) the most useless portion. 4. Relentless attacks at f116v, and respective forum discussions, led to a You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. of the last line of that folio. Unfortunately, the interpretation still waits to be encouraged or disproved. A middle high german expert is #1 on my list of persons wanted into Voynich studies. 5. Voynich mnemonics. The concept as introduced by Koen was a totally new light for me in which to look at "strange" Voynich plants. Don't know if things were looked at from this perspective earlier, but IMO that's an important consideration. Finally, Voynich Advances: The only one that I can think of - but a real one - is the You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. (thx Yulia for parsing through the old books). The discussion has been an excellent team work and a demonstration of what a team discussion can achieve. Mind there's still oladabas there. *** I may have mentioned many of things which I've authored or participated in. Hope I'll avoid the shower of critique though, cause that's because I naturally remember what I've done but I may even be unaware of what other people have. So your additions are welcome. And may the forthcoming year 2017 be no less fruitful - "as muckle better as he can".   [split] VMS - a forgery? Posted by: bunny - 14-12-2016, 08:31 AM - Forum: Analysis of the text - Replies (13) (14-12-2016, 06:24 AM)-JKP- Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.[quote pid='9755' dateline='1481674532'] That's modern English. They didn't speak or spell English like this in the 15th century. If you change even one letter, then the gematria number of the word changes and no longer matches the same word in Stellar's system. For example, I've seen the word "money" in 16th-century documents, but only rarely and I haven't seen it in any 15th-century documents. It's a French word (and spelled variously), not English and certainly not spelled "money". In those days, they usually spoke of silver or ducats or pence or specific quantities rather than using a general term like "money". Changing it to French spelling completely changes the gematria value, which means it wouldn't apply to the VMS word. Same with many of the other "decoded" words. [/quote] There is nothing that suggests to me it is factually a C15th manuscript in content and the language would be more modern.  Of all the languages people have looked at in modern times they do seem to find contemporaneous word structure, again something I will be looking at in my hypothesis. Bunny   The nimph with tongs? pincers? (f80r) Posted by: Searcher - 14-12-2016, 12:33 AM - Forum: Imagery - Replies (46) Description: This nymph is the second figure  in the central "canal" in the image on the f80r. Standing (going) in the water (or some liquid), she is dressed in the transparent (wet?) skirt, she holds some object in her hand, which looks similar to tongs or pincers. In this thread, I want to make a list of possible interpretations concerning the instrument and this person, in general. One or a few men made a supposition that this nymph may represent a woman in childbirth, and the tool in her hand is an obstetric forceps (after the second part of 16 c.). Another thought was made that this thing and the nymph could have some allegorical meaning. I also have a few suppositions as for this item. Let's begin from the "transparent skirt". I think it depicts a bathing clothes, just wet.  For example, as in bathing of You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. Now, about the thing similar to You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. or pincers. There are quite many kinds of tongs: blacksmith's tongs for coal (fireplace tongs, fire-tongs), goldsmith's tongs, dental tongs, ice tongs, etc. Tongs themselves are very old instrument: 1). Ancient Greek: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.. HEPHAISTOS (Hephaestus) was the Olympian god of fire, smiths, craftsmen, metalworking, stonemasonry and sculpture. He was depicted as a bearded man holding a hammer and tongs - the tools of a smith, and, sometimes, riding a donkey. 2).The Bible: Isaiah 6:6 "Then one of the seraphim flew to me with a live coal in his hand, which he had taken with tongs from the altar." 3). Pirkei Avot: "According to Pirkei Avot, a classical Jewish text of the third century of the common era, the first pair of You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. were created by God right before God rested in the Seventh Day. The reasoning is that a blacksmith must use a pair of tongs in order to fashion a brand new pair of tongs. Accordingly, God must have provided humankind with the first pair of tongs." Pirkei Avot, chapter 5, mishnah 6 says: Quote:Ten things were created at twilight of Shabbat eve. These are: the mouth of the earth [that swallowed Korach]; the mouth of [Miriam's] well; the mouth of [Balaam's] ass; the rainbow; the manna; [Moses'] staff; the shamir; the writing, the inscription and the tablets [of the Ten Commandments]. Some say also the burial place of Moses and the ram of our father Abraham. And some say also the spirits of destruction as well as the original tongs, for tongs are made with tongs. 4).You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. 5). Alchemists (women and men) with tongs on images, 16c.: Anna Maria Zieglerin (ca. 1550–1575)      A few versions representing alchemy.                             Alchemist's instruments: 6). You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. and the devil. 7). You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. 8). Use in tortures (without images   ) In conclusion: Most likely, men don't fit this story.  A woman with obstetric forceps can be worthy of note, if the VMs is a work written not earlier, than in the second part of the 16 century. On the other side, people, including alchemists, used fire-tongs from the earliest times, bathing (canals, liquids, lakes) in this case can mean You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view., You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view., for example.   Which changes to EVA would have the most impact? Posted by: Koen G - 11-12-2016, 09:17 PM - Forum: Analysis of the text - Replies (13) I think this is a very important question that might illuminate some things, yet I'm not sure if there is any answer readily available. The question has been purposefully phrased in terms of "most impact" because I'm not primarily interested in rare characters and other freak occurrences, but rather differences that might affect entropy (thanks Anton) and similar properties. I believe the alterations would mostly be to read as two separate glyphs something which in EVA is transcribed as one. Perhaps the most obvious example is the different kinds of "caps" on the bench. I would try to distinguish there between the floater and the toucher. But when I look at other glyphs, I also see significant variation, especially in the "tilt", for example in l and d. But those seem harder to tell apart. What is your opinion? And is there a way we could test whether a split is meaningful?   Discussion of the Konstellations Posted by: Koen G - 08-12-2016, 09:10 PM - Forum: Imagery - Replies (92) I have been studying Quire 13 for many months now, and have written quite a lot about it. I thought it would be a good idea to make a thread where I can share the results of my analyses. And hopefully discuss your comments, questions, criticisms or additional ideas. I decided to do my own "Jackson sequence" and call these things Konstellations because my name starts with a K. There is a good reason to not call them "constellations" because they diverge from standard depictions in a relatively consistent way. What? A Konstellation is two things at once, a synthesis of: A scene in an Ovidian myth, part of a narrative sequence that spans one or two pages. A depiction of an Aratean constellation. I use Ovidian and Aratean in the sense "like Ovid" and "like Aratus". I am not certain that these specific authors were the actual sources. Why? I don't know - we will only be sure when we can read the text. It is known that myth and constellations have had a symbiotic relationship since times immemorial, and they were often transmitted together. See for example the Aratea tradition and the works of popular authors like Ovid and Hyginus. We also know that quite a number of Roman authors, like Cicero, made (creative) translations of Aratus' poem. The translation of Greek astronomical works was seen as a rite of passage or a matter of prestige, and many of these works survived into the middel ages, where they were translated and/or adapted again. We also know that many works have been lost. All I know is that likely the VM images emerged from this fertile soil which, during many centuries, inspired men to write about stars and myths. It is no wonder that many Hellenistic myths were catasterisms, myths explaining the origins of constellations. Obviously, the Voynich is different than anything we know. Whether that is because we are witnessing the last survivor of a lost tradition or an individual's creative effort is beside the point here - both remain possible, given the right source texts. Where? Konstellations are only found in a subset of Quire 13 folios. This subset has been distinguished by a number of previous researchers: Claston, Pelling, VViews... The folios are: 76(v), 77, 79, 80, 82, 83. The direction of the stories is almost always right to left (!). From this subset, I am not certain whether 77, 82 and 83 follow the exact same pattern, so I will not discuss them here. That leaves five folios as the subject of this thread: 76v, 79r, 79v, 80r, 80v. The arrangement of the bifolios allows for the option that these pages were once grouped, though this is not strictly a prerequisite.  Overview These are the stories I have analyzed in depth so far: f79r Ceyx and Alcyone: Ceyx' ship is destroyed in a storm, Iris is sent to the realm of Sleep, Morpheus tells Alcyone the news that her husband is dead. f79v Scylla and Glaucus: Glaucus, a "merman", is in love with Scylla. He asks the witch Circe for a love potion. Circe is jealous and turns Scylla into a monster/rock instead. f80r Philomela (part 1) f76v Philomela (part 2) f80v Callisto UPDATE 11 Dec 2016. Virgo moved to f80r, Leo and Taurus added, Cancer removed. I am fairly certain (90%) about the following constellations so far. I do not include those with less certainty yet: f76v Ara, Engonasin (Hercules), Lyra, Cygnus, Equus. Scorpio's tail is hinted at above Ara. f79r Perseus, Aries, Auriga, Gemini, Libra, Ophiuchus. Also both Equinoxes are marked. Locations of in-between constellations are marked with dots but not depicted. f79v Argo Navis, Piscis Austrinus, Triangulum, Delphinus, Sagitta f80r Scorpio, Pisces, Virgo, Aquarius, Leo, Taurus f80v Ursa Minor, Ursa Major, Draco, Bootes, Orion, Cetus, Lepus, Canis, Corvus-Hydra-Crater Additionally, it seems clear that Cepheus, Cassiopeia and Andromeda are on top of f77v, but I don't understand much else from this folio yet. The analysis of each Konstellation requires consulting primary sources. Those who collected myths, like Ovid and Hyginus, and those who described the constellations and their relative positions, like Aratus and Manilius. And many constellation manuscripts, like Aratus Latinus. These findings are not the result of free association, but of many hours of work. Fun, but work nonetheless.  The difficulty of communicating these findings is that - as is so often the case in Voynich studies - there is no complete visual parallel. I hope that by presenting the Konstellations in this thread, you will get an idea of the degree of consistency and the scope of this brilliant synthesis. With each discovery, my admiration for the person who made this has grown. It is like a dense poem, where each line says many things at once. Only, this is a poem of myths and constellation images. Some of the earlier analyses on my blog have been made in the early stages, and they don't always reflect what I know now. For the time being, I would like to refer to my most recent posts, which analyze the constellation level of f79r in detail, and with a more mature understanding of the imagery. You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. I will add individual examples to this thread in the next days, but for now this general introduction will do. I will of course gladly answer any questions or remarks already.   f82v: those rainbows Posted by: Koen G - 08-12-2016, 10:00 AM - Forum: Imagery - Replies (108) Like most things Voynich, these "rainbows" look rather strange. They consist of four or five bands, one colored blue and another green. They are not tube-like, distinguishing them from similar bows in the MS. So well, I wonder, could these actually represent rainbows? Has anyone found comparative images? I started this thread because I saw this rainbow in the Wiener Genesis, which reminded me of the VM style. But that's all I've got for now. Attached Files   Untitled-4.jpg (Size: 112.29 KB / Downloads: 600)   The Rosette folio and Aristotle's Meteorologica Posted by: juergenw - 05-12-2016, 11:13 PM - Forum: Imagery - Replies (17) Nick Pelling introduced on his blog the You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. with the aim of matching blocks of text sources across several pages of the Voynich manuscript in an attempt to create a new angle for voynich analysis. I tried to use a special use case of his methodology in order to match a single text source to a single folio analysing the network of imagery within. I attach the summary of my findings in essay format You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. . As the title of the thread and essay already indicates, I suggest strong links of the Rosette folio’s micro-imagery (part of it, not all) to Aristotle’s Meteorologica (as indicated previously You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. on Davidsch's thread). For those not fancying the full story, I attach one figure with two findings: Firewinds and whirlwinds and their proximity in text (webster translation of Meteorologica, Bekker pagination fro the greek version in the figure) and image details, respectively. Other findings e.g. relate to earthquakes. The discussion then introduces some more suggestions (e.g. the Aristotelian life cycle in the context of the Meteorologica). By no means is that work finished, but if anyone wants to comment on it, I would be grateful for any feedback. Attached Files   firewind and whirlwinds.jpg (Size: 50.69 KB / Downloads: 90)   Plant in f7v 'has dots on its leaves' Posted by: Karenina - 03-12-2016, 07:50 PM - Forum: Imagery - Replies (15) About the plant in f7v: it struck me that it has a single dot on each of its leaves. I thought this might be an abstraction, and signify 'has dots on its leaves'.  In that case this plant could for instance be Lungwort (Pulmonaria officinalis), which has dotted leaves, little flowers, and belongs to the Boraginaceae, which in general have hairy leaves .  See pictures: Lungwort (Pulmonaria) in photo, in You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. MS Egerton 747 (Nicolaus of Salerno, Tractatus de herbis , c.1280-1310), and in Giorgio Bonelli’s, Hortus romanus, vol. 2, Rome, 1774, tab. 27.   Pulmonaria officinalis.jpg (Size: 27.3 KB / Downloads: 204)   lungwort-egerton-747p1.jpg (Size: 83.67 KB / Downloads: 220)   Pulmonaria Italorum.jpg (Size: 57.17 KB / Downloads: 223) Is anyone aware of similar abstractions in representation in other herbal manuscripts of that time?  If was wondering if perhaps the 'image language' in the herbal section could be in general more abstract than one would expect. First Previous Next Last