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+--- Thread: [or aiin] (/thread-1142.html)
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[or aiin] - Emma May Smith - 22-11-2016
According to voynichese.com, the word or occurs 366 times and the word aiin occurs 470 times. Simply by chance we should expect multiple instances where the two words occur adjacently. However, the phrase or aiin is much more common than aiin or. This suggests that its occurrence is important in some way.
It could be a set phrase with a single meaning (such as parce que in French). It could also be a sign that one order is grammatical and the other is not.
(Interestingly for my hypothesis that words are transformed at the beginning of lines, a few instances of sor aiin occur.)
Although even two word phrases are not terrifically common, I wonder if any other two words show obvious signs of bias toward one specific order. It could be that we could use them to divide words into groups according to the positions they take in such phrases.
RE: [or aiin] - ThomasCoon - 23-11-2016
(22-11-2016, 10:42 PM)Emma May Smith Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.However, the phrase or aiin is much more common than aiin or. This suggests that its occurrence is important in some way.
I think this is a very important observation.
My guess why this happens may of course be different (you know I'm on the cipher side instead of the linguistic) but the ordering of these units is significant either way. Do you have an inference as to their meaning, Emma?
RE: [or aiin] - Torsten - 23-11-2016
You can expect that the order of two words matters if both words together would result in a valid and common VMS word. For instance if you join or and aiin this would result in oraiin. oraiin occurs 34 times whereas a word aiinor doesn't exist for the VMS. Therefore you can expect that or aiin occurs more frequently then aiin or
Another example is the word olchedy. olchedy occurs 38 times whereas a word chedyol exists only once.
Therefore you can expect that the sequence ol chedy is more frequent then the sequence chedy ol. This is indeed the case. ol chedy occurs 20 times whereas chedy ol occurs only two times.
This way it is possible to find more examples:
cheodain (11 times) - daincheo (-)
cheo daiin (5) - daiin cheo (1)
oldaiin (9 times) - daiinol (1)
ol daiin (12 times) - daiin ol (5)
RE: [or aiin] - ThomasCoon - 23-11-2016
Wow Torsten. Those are also very striking numbers.
RE: [or aiin] - Torsten - 23-11-2016
It is possible to confirm the result of my last post by checking rare words. For instance neither a word archedy or a word chedyar exists. Therefore it is expected that a sequence ar chedy or chedy ar should be rare. This is indeed the case. The sequence ar chedy occurs only two times and a sequence chedy ar doesn't exist for the VMS:
archedy (-) - chedyar (-)
ar chedy (2 times) - chedy ar (-)
ardaiin (-) - daiinar (-)
ar daiin (-) - daiin ar (3 times)
RE: [or aiin] - MarcoP - 23-11-2016
I made a brute-force search for asymmetric word pairs. These are the most asymmetric couples (the two numbers are the occurrences of A.B and the occurrences of B.A). or aiin is indeed the most remarkable case.
I attach a more extensive list sorted by this arbitrary relevance measure: #(A.B)*[(#A.B-#B.A)/(#A.B+#B.A)]
or aiin 52 9
s aiin 40 4
chol daiin 35 7
r aiin 18 0
ar aiin 24 5
ol shedy 24 7
ar al 25 8
ol chedy 22 6
chedy qokeey 19 4
or shedy 10 0
shedy qokeey 13 2
s ar 11 1
sheedy qokeedy 9 0
okar ar 12 2
aiin chey 12 2
shedy qokedy 21 9
or aiiin 8 0
al chedy 8 0
shedy qokeedy 16 6
qokeey qokedy 9 1
qokaiin ol 9 1
dar al 9 1
aiin okal 9 1
RE: [or aiin] - Koen G - 23-11-2016
It is interesting to see that aiin gravitates toward the second position in word pairs.
Might we learn something by checking which word follows aiin in "or aiin" combinations?
I ran a quick test and it seems that or.aiin is followed by a surprising amount of different words, with only 6 doubles and one triple.
Not sure what to make of this, but it might add weight to a grammatical vs. lexical interpretation.
RE: [or aiin] - Sam G - 23-11-2016
(23-11-2016, 12:27 PM)MarcoP Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I made a brute-force search for asymmetric word pairs. These are the most asymmetric couples (the two numbers are the occurrences of A.B and the occurrences of B.A). or aiin is indeed the most remarkable case.
I attach a more extensive list sorted by this arbitrary relevance measure: #(A.B)*[(#A.B-#B.A)/(#A.B+#B.A)]
Thanks for that list. It reminded me of something I had noticed a while back looking at individual pairs of words, which is that words beginning in ch or Sh have a tendency to precede rather than follow words beginning with q.
If you sort them all out:
chedy qokeey 19 4 12.39
shedy qokeey 13 2 9.53
sheedy qokeedy 9 0 8.99
shedy qokedy 21 9 8.39
shedy qokeedy 16 6 7.27
shedy qokaiin 18 8 6.92
chedy qokey 8 1 6.22
chedy qokain 8 1 6.22
shedy qokey 6 0 5.99
shey qokey 7 1 5.24
shey qokeey 7 1 5.24
shey qokeedy 5 0 4.99
shedy qotedy 5 0 4.99
chey qokeedy 8 2 4.79
shedy qoky 9 3 4.49
chedy qotaiin 6 1 4.28
sheedy qokaiin 4 0 3.99
cheey qokeey 4 0 3.99
chckhy qokal 4 0 3.99
shey qokaiin 9 4 3.46
chedy qokar 9 4 3.46
sheedy qokedy 5 1 3.33
shedy qoteedy 5 1 3.33
chey qol 10 5 3.33
shol qokol 3 0 2.99
shey qoty 3 0 2.99
shey qo 3 0 2.99
sheey qokol 3 0 2.99
sheey qokaiin 3 0 2.99
shedy qotaiin 3 0 2.99
chey qoky 6 2 2.99
cheedy qotaiin 3 0 2.99
cheedy qokal 3 0 2.99
chedy qotedy 3 0 2.99
chedy qokam 3 0 2.99
chdy qokar 3 0 2.99
chdy qokain 3 0 2.99
qokaiin chol 5 0 4.99
qotal shedy 8 2 4.79
qokal chedy 12 6 3.99
qokaiin checkhy 4 0 3.99
qokain chckhy 5 1 3.33
qoty chy 3 0 2.99
qokor shedy 3 0 2.99
qokal chdy 3 0 2.99
qokain cheedy 3 0 2.99
qokaiin shcthy 3 0 2.99
qokaiin chcthy 3 0 2.99
Also noteworthy is that most of the exceptions involve the word beginning in q containing an a-ending.
RE: [or aiin] - MarcoP - 23-11-2016
(23-11-2016, 04:15 PM)Sam G Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.(23-11-2016, 12:27 PM)MarcoP Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I made a brute-force search for asymmetric word pairs. These are the most asymmetric couples (the two numbers are the occurrences of A.B and the occurrences of B.A). or aiin is indeed the most remarkable case.
I attach a more extensive list sorted by this arbitrary relevance measure: #(A.B)*[(#A.B-#B.A)/(#A.B+#B.A)]
Thanks for that list. It reminded me of something I had noticed a while back looking at individual pairs of words, which is that words beginning in ch or Sh have a tendency to precede rather than follow words beginning with q.
If you sort them all out:
....
Also noteworthy is that most of the exceptions involve the word beginning in q containing an a-ending.
I agree, Sam. That is an interesting regularity.
If one considers qo-words ending with 'y', the fact that the patter repeats is quite clear (there's a single exception in one of the couples which have only 3 occurrences: qoty chy). Many of this couples are so similar that I doubt they are all meaningfully different: their shapes and behaviors are so similar that I think they could be spelling (or morphological?) variations of a single phenomenon.
chedy qokeey 19 4 12.39
shedy qokeey 13 2 9.53
sheedy qokeedy 9 0 8.99
shedy qokedy 21 9 8.39
shedy qokeedy 16 6 7.27
chedy qokey 8 1 6.22
shedy qokey 6 0 5.99
shey qokey 7 1 5.24
shey qokeey 7 1 5.24
shey qokeedy 5 0 4.99
shedy qotedy 5 0 4.99
chey qokeedy 8 2 4.79
shedy qoky 9 3 4.49
cheey qokeey 4 0 3.99
sheedy qokedy 5 1 3.33
shedy qoteedy 5 1 3.33
shey qoty 3 0 2.99
qoty chy 3 0 2.99
chey qoky 6 2 2.99
chedy qotedy 3 0 2.99
Koen's observations are also something to look into. Once again, Emma has spotted a line of investigation that can help us understand more of Voynichese!
RE: [or aiin] - Sam G - 23-11-2016
The pairs involving a word beginning with d and a word beginning with q also follow an obvious pattern:
qokal dar 7 0 6.99
qoky daiin 11 3 6.28
qokol daiin 8 1 6.22
qokedy dal 6 1 4.28
qokal dal 4 0 3.99
qokeey daiin 10 5 3.33
qotal dar 3 0 2.99
qopchedy daiin 3 0 2.99
qokey daiin 3 0 2.99
qokeedy dar 3 0 2.99
qokedy dar 3 0 2.99