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Welcome, Guest You have to register before you can post on our site. Username/Email:    Password    Remember me Search Forums (Advanced Search) Online Users There are currently 367 online users. » 6 Member(s) | 359 Guest(s) Bing, Google, luiscrassus Latest Threads alchemical herbals Forum: Codicology and Paleography Last Post: MarcoP 1 hour ago » Replies: 31 » Views: 21,293 A Ardıç - "The Code Is De... Forum: News Last Post: Koen G 2 hours ago » Replies: 53 » Views: 3,226 Favorite Plant Tournament... Forum: Voynich Talk Last Post: Aga Tentakulus 3 hours ago » Replies: 9 » Views: 281 [split] Color annotations... Forum: Voynich Talk Last Post: MarcoP 4 hours ago » Replies: 83 » Views: 42,273 Eleven Moon Phases in Fol... Forum: Astrology Last Post: voynichrose 5 hours ago » Replies: 105 » Views: 9,027 Solutions [discussion thr... Forum: Voynich Talk Last Post: Aga Tentakulus Yesterday, 07:19 PM » Replies: 56 » Views: 9,966 Why not positional variat... Forum: Analysis of the text Last Post: Aga Tentakulus Yesterday, 07:01 PM » Replies: 69 » Views: 8,109 Big Red Weirdos Forum: Voynich Talk Last Post: Cile cile Yesterday, 06:11 PM » Replies: 64 » Views: 45,099 Origin of the Shield Shap... Forum: Imagery Last Post: Dobri Yesterday, 04:25 PM » Replies: 101 » Views: 4,283 New Decoder Forum: Voynich Talk Last Post: bi3mw Yesterday, 11:16 AM » Replies: 9 » Views: 930

TED-ED Video Posted by: -JKP- - 26-05-2017, 05:22 PM - Forum: Analysis of the text - Replies (20) I just watched the short video on the VMS created by TED-ED and scripted by Stephen Bax. The graphics are charming. I enjoyed them, and they'll probably reach a broader audience and generate increased interest in the VMS. There is, however, a statement in the video that I find questionable, and since this section is for analysis of the text, I thought it might be interesting to discuss it. Here is the statement: "Cryptologists say the writing has all the characteristics of a real language." Is that really true? Is that the general consensus among cryptologists? Is there a general consensus among cryptologists? I'm not a cryptologist, but my personal feeling is that the text diverges quite significantly from natural language, particularly if the spaces are taken literally. I have never seen any natural language with such a high level of repetition combined with such a high degree of positional rigidity, not only in the word-tokens themselves, but also in the construction of individual lines. The only way I can see this being natural language (and I still haven't discounted the possibility) is IF the spaces are contrived AND there are nulls AND some of the letter forms that appear similar are possibly intended to be differentiated by details (e.g., the length or direction of tails) OR if it is another kind of system entirely (musical notes, numbers, semaphore, etc., which is then converted back into natural language). Your thoughts? Mod edit: The link to the video is You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view..   Stephen Bax's TED-ED video Posted by: Koen G - 26-05-2017, 02:10 PM - Forum: News - Replies (15) Stephen Bax just updated his website, announcing that he scripted a Voynich video for TED-ED (not to be confused with TED-talks). You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. Direct link to the video on TED-ED's YouTube channel: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. It is basically the standard introduction to the manuscript, and experienced researchers won't learn anything new. I like the TED-ED animators' style though, and the animations they did of some of the pages are really beautiful. The frog Posted by: ReneZ - 21-05-2017, 09:00 AM - Forum: Imagery - Replies (103) There are only three illustration of animals in the herbal and pharmaceutical section: a pair of snakes, a dragon and a frog. The snakes and dragon are very common in medieval illustrated herbals, but the frog isn't. In fact, beside snakes and dragons, one would commonly see scorpions and dogs, and in almost all cases the animal has something to do with the medicinal properties of the herb. What would the frog mean? It is on You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. in the upper right corner:   f102r2_frog.jpg (Size: 18.04 KB / Downloads: 708) This is clearly the same herb as on f32v:   f032v_crd.jpg (Size: 44.1 KB / Downloads: 530) The "artist" has taken the trouble to bring in one leaf and one flower to show that it's the same. Which herb would have something to do with frogs? One option is given by the Tractatus de Herbis tradition. There is usually a frog ('rana') drawn closely to a herb called 'ranaria'. This is because the books show herbs and animals mixed, and they are organised alphabetically. Here's an example from Munich CLM 28531, which I have rotated for layout purposes:   clm28531_frog.jpg (Size: 20.66 KB / Downloads: 524) The herb does not look at all like the herb in the Voynich MS. Another incidental example I found is in a Latin illustrated copy of Dioscurides, also in Munich:  CLM 337:   clm337_frog.jpg (Size: 20.41 KB / Downloads: 527) Now this one is a bit more interesting as the herb does bear a passing resemblance to the VMS herb. This one is Cyminon Agrestis, which in the more common Greek versions is Κύμινον άγριον (hope that comes out). After this, it gets more difficult. In Greek copies of Dioscurides (I only checked the online ones in Naples and in New York), the herb looks very different, and there is no frog. The reason of the frog seems to be a standard venom-related issue, but I haven't seen any specific reason why a frog and not a dragon/snake/scorpion. Unfortunately, the scan of CLM 337 is not of the best quality, and the Beneventan script takes quite a while to get used to. So, no great answers yet, but perhaps someone else knows a bit more.   Udine Herbal - ms Joppi 1161 Posted by: MarcoP - 11-05-2017, 11:04 AM - Forum: Codicology and Paleography - Replies (7) This illustrated herbal was written in Veneto in 1450 ca. Digital images can be seen You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.. The ms was stolen in 1992 and recovered in 1995, but the thieves removed 6 folios that are now lost (documented in older black-and-white photographs). A facsimile edition was published in 2007 (You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view., Editors: Caterina Barbon and Roberto Benedetti, Publisher Vattori). The essays in the 2007 book only briefly discuss the relationship between this herbal and You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.. A paper and a thesis by Micol Duca are mentioned: her hypothesis is that the Vermont and Udine herbals are both copies of a lost original written in Tuscany. Roberto Benedetti also points out some errors in the text of the Udine herbal that do not appear in the text of the Vermont herbal. Comparing the illustrations, it is clear that those in the Udine herbal are more detailed and more accurately painted than those in the Vermont herbal. For instance, in Vermont img.22 “Herba Imorio Chiarissima” has two large green leaves; these leaves were color-annotated “rossa” (red). The corresponding illustration in the Udine herbal (img.56) has two large blossoms or fruits, painted red and with a “scaly” pattern that was also lost in the Vermont ms. When comparing this herbal with the Voynich ms, a feature that seems common to both is the use of roots with only a few large “branches” which are arranged in such a way that they suggest a vaguely anthropomorphic shape. The same roots can also be observed in the Vermont herbal (sometimes obfuscated by the heavier painting). Attached Files   Rosso_56.jpg (Size: 83.42 KB / Downloads: 193)   udine_roots.jpg (Size: 140.08 KB / Downloads: 359)   marginalia: was it personal? Posted by: peteb - 10-05-2017, 12:32 AM - Forum: Marginalia - Replies (8) I have read accounts where medieval scribes transcribing a manuscript have added their personal thoughts as marginalia, not only that, but substituted more familiar words for those they could not understand. Is this old news?   Vegetable beast. Late echoes of Voynich style? Posted by: Diane - 09-05-2017, 12:58 AM - Forum: Imagery - No Replies Found this in the Dumbarton Oaks collection.  It's a book published in  1723, but all the same.. You can see the plate and the book's catalogue entry in full at the Dumbarton Oaks site You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view..  The way the site is set up prevents hot-links, so I've had to post it to voynichimagery and link from that. Michel Angelo Tilli et.al., Catalogus plantarum horti Pisani. Published in Florence in 1723. Includes two folded leaves. Full .   Tarot imagery and such Posted by: Diane - 08-05-2017, 01:15 PM - Forum: Astrology - Replies (4) Please, now... everyone stay CALM. As Marco will know, I expect, there is astronomical imagery within the medieval paintings set on card, as well as in contemporary paintings on walls or in manuscripts. Now, for various reasons, not least then-current fashions, we also find images relating to those put on card in other media.  It is mainly studies of those other media which have produced the more scholarly books and papers. But to consider paintings put on card, as on paper, during the fourteenth- or fifteenth- century is not an outrageous thing to do, even if the pictures were used for playing games, or .. whatever. Even prognostication. One of the picture-cycles which has shown some clear iconographic links to images on cards (not only the shorter, tarot deck but the larger tarocchi) are those in the Shifanoia at Ferrara.  And the d'Este were the ruling family there. Another - which Aby Warburg spoke about in about 1912 - is in the old Meeting Hall in Padua. Often distinguished by being called 'il Salone'. Which is a pretty long introduction to a picture of a lobster.   Ercole D' Este Tarot Voynich Glyph Symbols found Posted by: coded - 08-05-2017, 03:04 AM - Forum: Astrology - Replies (10) I found a reference for a tarot card from Edith Sherwood's' site and I guess this should go in astrology!  The tarot card is similar to f67r2 and it's Ercole l D'Este's card. Oringinal Ercole D'Este full Tarot Deck link. You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.   f101v1 Palma Christi? Posted by: MarcoP - 06-05-2017, 10:08 AM - Forum: Imagery - Replies (2) In You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view., Rene Zandbergen has proposed a parallel between manuscript illustrations of the Palma Christ (hand of Christ) orchid. Most manuscripts represent the root of the orchid as a single hand, with its finger at the bottom. You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. (second half of the XIV Century) represents the root as four hands, with fingers pointing to the right and left. In my opinion, one of the plants in Voynich You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. could be a similar (smaller and simplified) illustration of the same plant. Attached Files   Palma_Christi.jpg (Size: 112.44 KB / Downloads: 135)   Sun text f68r2 Posted by: Emma May Smith - 04-05-2017, 07:15 PM - Forum: Analysis of the text - Replies (9) I would like the opinions of others on the text round the sun on f68r2 (the bottom roundel). I think that most of the words are easily readable, but the last three are interesting and not clearly Voynichese. I would transcribe the roundel text: [okey okoaiin okol oky oeeeo r *key okeeol  *** * ****], with the last three words unreadable. Some transcribers give the third to last word a reading of [cheo] and the following word [o], but I think even these are suspect. Just bad penmanship, or something else?   Sun text f68r2.jpg (Size: 134.9 KB / Downloads: 228) First Previous Next Last