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| Phonetic Theory about the VMS |
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Posted by: Gavin Güldenpfennig - 11-02-2020, 11:56 PM - Forum: Analysis of the text
- Replies (6)
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Hello VMS community,
after fighting some Brythonic dragons  ...
... I´m back with a new idea.
We all have thoughts about the VMS manuscript. Some are good, some are bullshit. But all are useful for making progress. Even my old theories about the VMS, "that it could be written in Basque" and "...in Gaulish / Galatian". 
They were surely wrong, as some of you expected and as I know today, but I learned a lot about the manuscript and its way through the history even after working for 10 years on the VMS.
Let us summarize, what we have...
Facts about the VMS:
* it was written in the early 15th century
* but: we do not know for sure, if it is a "new" text or a copy of an older one
* someone sold the VMS manuscript to Rudolf II.
* some Jesuits tried to solve the VMS puzzle
* the Jesuits tried to "domesticate" the Celtic initial mutations in writing (for example in Breton language)
* Voynich bought the VMS in Italy around 1912
* Voynich´s wife was from Ireland
* there is a litte dragon on folio 25v
* there is a drawing of four beings on folio 86r, which could be inspired by the Book of Revelation
* there is a drawing of a (naked) woman in the upper left corner of folio 82v, which gives us (if my reading is correct) the word cluster y-ƒar(i)∂ín (otechdy)
You see a tendency, where the VMS text could come from? Right, the (former) Celtic part of the British Isles. Or being more precise...
... the Hen Ogledd or even Pictland!
That would even explain the naked women, because the Picts ... were Picts ... and they extensively use cauldrons. 
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The word "y-ƒar(i)∂ín" {ə-ƒarᶦðʲn} could be a key for understanding the language.
A main figure of the Welsh mythology is the witch "Carridwen". One of her attributes is a cauldron. So maybe her name could mean something like "the women (in Welsh: "dynes") of the cauldron (in reconstructed Proto-Celtic: *kʷaryos)". If that is true, and if ƒ is a labialized "k"- sound, we could have her original name "Kwaridín" in the VMS.
The "y" could be something like an article.
To check this theory I have done some work with the star map on 68r1 again. And now I´m further than ever before with understanding the map. But the ƒ did different things during transcribing the map, while all other letters are very consistent in their sound value, and even follow some modern Celtic orthography- sound- rules. 
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1.) ƒ arises, when we expect a {p} like in "pajenn" (Brezhoneg: side)
2.) ƒ arises, when we expect a labialized {ʷ} ... {k, g, h} like in *kʷaryos
3.) ƒ arises, when we expect a {ɬ} like in Welsh "ll" or Arabic h-sounds or š
What does this mean?
I don´t really know, but...
The ƒ is used for labialized sounds. That´s sure, if my reconstruction is correct.
Also Derek Vogt mentioned before in his video series about a possible VMS- Romani connection, that there seems to be no sign of a "l- sound" in the Voynich language. But maybe that´s the point. The ƒ could have been used for laterals, too. It really seems to be its main function.
And what is even more exciting. It seems to be a possibility to write a "p".
The Celtic language family is divided into the P- & Q- Celtic branches. Celtic {p} and {k} are reflexes of the Indoeuropean sound {k[font=Arial]ʷ}.[/font]
Could have been their a third branch with an {[font=-webkit-standard][font=Liberation Serif, serif][font=Times New Roman, serif]ł[/font][/font]}- reflex. Could this be the real ancestor of modern Welsh?[/font]
I will further work on it and I´m ready for discussion and your thoughts. 
PS: I have developed a Voynichese Phonetic System. But I´m unsure with some sound additions because of the small but Celtic word inventory I have translated, so I will finish this while coming translations. But what I can say is, that there are similarities to the known Celtic phonetic inventories.
The Voynichese phonetic system seems to be divided in to three main articulation areas (Labial - Coronal - Velar) and it uses palatalized and labialized (as velarization in Old Irish) coronal sounds. 
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| [Nymph Philosophy] Why the nude female form? |
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Posted by: Koen G - 08-02-2020, 01:57 PM - Forum: Imagery
- Replies (47)
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Why do the Zodiac section, Q13A and Q13B all favor naked nude female forms for their human figures? This is a question I have pondered often, and which, in my opinion, might provide some insight into the manuscript's underlying thoughts.
(In fact, only one part of the manuscript uses human figures which are not predominantly nude and female: the four-figure diagrams.)
When looking exclusively at Q13B (the central pool pages), the argument would be simple. The women are nude because they are bathing, and they are mostly women because communal baths or bathing sites for women are often no men allowed.
Naamloos-2 kopiëren.jpg (Size: 67.61 KB / Downloads: 335)
Just some women bathing in two orderly rows, no big deal. We know of other manuscripts with more or less similar imagery (Balneis etc).
But then move to Q13A, and the situation becomes more complicated. Some of the figures are still standing in pools, but they engage in unusual activities like physical conflict, or they hold items we don't recognize, or wouldn't immediately associate with bathing or even medicine (thinking of the spindles for example). The bases on which they stand become more complex and hard to explain in literal terms. Symbols like cloud bands appear.
Naamloos-3 kopiëren.jpg (Size: 78.83 KB / Downloads: 334)
Moving into the sub-subsection with rainbows and other elemental madness, things get even more complex. Still, everything is performed by nude human figures.
Naamloos-5 kopiëren.jpg (Size: 40.76 KB / Downloads: 355)
Now in Q13, all but a dozen or so figures appear to be standing in at least a personal basin of water. But move over to the Zodiac section, and you see the same kinds of figures marching along concentric circles around their Zodiac symbol. For sure, there are exceptions (notably the circles with clothed figures), but the nude female appears to be the general rule.
Naamloos-7 kopiëren.jpg (Size: 61.34 KB / Downloads: 332)
So what gives? I understand that bathing and even medicine may require nudity, but why are the same strange figures holding rainbows or queuing around a month emblem while holding stars? There seems to be some continuum in how easy or hard it is to explain the figures in a literal sense. Is it possible that Q13B (pools) is about literal bathing, while the same bathers also function as personifications (?) of days (?) in the Zodiac section?
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| [split] breast stylistics |
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Posted by: nablator - 07-02-2020, 04:50 PM - Forum: Imagery
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(06-02-2020, 01:03 PM)-JKP- Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Yes, I did take out the breasts because breasts on small drawings are round with small dots on them. There are tens of thousands that look the same.
Well actually these don't look the same at all as the ones in the VMS. Are there any in XVth century manuscripts that look exactly like the antigravity boobs in the VMS?
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| Cosmic secrets revealed |
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Posted by: R. Sale - 05-02-2020, 12:10 AM - Forum: Voynich Talk
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The comparison of the VMs cosmos with the current galaxy of medieval images has revealed this. It’s not about appearance. It’s about structure. The artist of the VMs has made it clear that appearance can be easily altered. And those who do not apprehend the underlying structure will be easily deceived by the altered appearance presented.
The investigator’s familiarity with medieval traditions should be such that, while trying to make sense of the strange plants of the opening botanical folios, it is also immediately aware of the untoward presence of the nebuly lines and other unnatural, artistic inclusions to leaves and roots of certain VMs plants.. Nebuly lines, rayonny lines, and asymmetrical cloud-band patterns do not belong to the categories of leaf-margin patterns, let alone to roots. This should be apparent to those familiar with botany. In this part, this is heraldry and, of course, the universe of cloud-band patterns.
The reasons for, or the intentional use of, altered appearance might not be evident on the basis of these botanical examples alone. But then, there is the VMs cosmos. It is about the structure and it is clearly an intentional alteration of appearance and a combination of images: ‘Oresme’ plus ‘Shirakatsi’. Despite differences in appearance, once the nature and the structure of the parts are recognized, the combination becomes apparent. The investigator’s familiarity with medieval traditions will determine the direction, the relevance, the very existence of further inquiry. Both sources are needed to explain the VMs cosmos. The elements of structure are equivalent, but appearance differs significantly. The cosmic secrets are revealed by comparing relevant illustrations.
Visually, the first difference in the Shirakatsi diagram compared with the VMs is that the eight curved spokes are oriented in opposite directions. This could be the result of using a camera obscura. Or, if the illustration were an actual wheel with curved spokes, then viewing it from one side will present one orientation and viewing it from the other side will present the opposite orientation. So, it’s the same wheel seen from the other side; it’s the same thing, but the view is different. In other words, it’s a matter of perspective and interpretation. And that is a useful theme for this investigation.
The second difference in the wheel and spokes part is that there is VMs writing is enclosed between the bands that compose the wheel and spokes, whereas the Shirakatsi example is blank between the lines.. In the world of medieval European art, similar constructions such as text banners are frequently ephemeral bearers of information rather than actual objects.
In the Oresme portion of the VMs cosmic illustration there are three structural elements. The first is a central Earth represented as an inverted T-O. Second is an area around the Earth which contains the stars. Third is a circular cosmic boundary that encloses the area of the stars. This is not the structure found in a typical medieval representation of the cosmos, which consists of a series of concentric planetary circles, and sometimes elemental circles as well, instead of an earthly circle divided internally. And while there are various atypical cosmic structures to be found from medieval sources, few can be shown to match the same three-part structure seen in the VMs. As presented in 2014 (E. Velinska), the two best examples are the early 1400s images found in the Paris editions of books by Oresme and de Metz.
Compare the individual elements in all three of these cosmic structures. In all three, the Earth is an inverted T-O structure. In Oresme and de Metz, the Earth’s representation is pictorial. In the VMs, it is linguistic. The VMs was not copied. The copy of a pictorial illustration is another pictorial representation. The VMs might provide the same information, but it is using a different method. This is a code shift. It has a totally altered visual appearance.
Likewise, the area of stars around the Earth is similar in the two Paris texts and different in the VMs. ‘Oresme’ and ‘de Metz’ both have golden, asterisk-style stars scattered on a blue field. The VMs makes use of polygonal stars in this illustration, though asterisk-style stars are found on many other pages. And in the VMs cosmos, the stars are set out in a series almost like beads of a string going around the Earth. In Latin two words (cingere and circumdare) are used to indicate both ‘to surround’ and ‘to encircled’. Clearly the VMs illustration is able to depict the alternative interpretation. This constitutes a visual play on words.
Only in the third element, the circular cosmic boundary, do the two Paris images diverge. The boundary in the de Metz cosmos consists of simple, plain lines. The cosmic boundary in the Oresme version is an elaborate, scallop-shell patterned ‘Wolkenband’ with much similarity to certain works of Christine de Pisan also produced in Paris in the early 1400s. Meanwhile the VMs has an attempt at a circle consisting of a ‘trying-to-be’ regular, meandering line that is bulbous, and is therefore a nebuly line. And thus, the VMs cosmos is specifically (though perhaps not directly) connected to the Paris version of the Oresme text produced about 1410. There is the structural similarity between the nebuly line and the scallop-shell pattern used for certain cloud-bands. There is the etymological derivation of the traditional terms used in Latin, and in German. And there is the presence of 43 undulations in both the VMs and the Oresme illustrations. Even at this level of detail the VMs matches the structure of Oresme over any other medieval illustration. And still, at the same time, each element presents a strong visual contrast in its appearance as seen in their comparisons. It is the same fundamental structure, with each part intentionally given a distinctively different visually re-presentation in the VMs. That is what the cosmic comparison reveals. It reveals that the VMs cosmos is a pairing of two other cosmic images with numerous alterations that disrupt visual similarity and disguise structural similarity. And it reveals a creative spirit native to the appropriate cultural traditions that modern investigations strive to recover. It reveals that combination and alteration work together to disguise any identification. And this method of presentation occurs on more than one occasion beyond the VMs cosmos. It reveals that some of the secrets of the VMs cosmos are hidden by information that is missing in our modern understanding of the cultural traditions that went into the VMs’ creation. Under what circumstances could the combination of Oresme and Shirakatsi occur?
Note: As a boost to the potential relevance of the de Metz text, there is the illustration of a “woman standing in a fish’s mouth” that is similar to the example in the VMs.
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| On the Voynich manuscript |
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Posted by: Torsten - 04-02-2020, 06:09 PM - Forum: News
- Replies (15)
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There is a new paper published about the VMS: "You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view."
The paper by István Daruka can be found You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
The author concludes:
Quote: This pronounced repetitive behavior on the word level is fully incompatible with the natural languages in which the similar word re-occurrence rate function amounts to be zero at zero word separation and it increases until reaching a maximum at some finite word separations (Schinner 2007; Timm 2016).
Quote: The intriguing multilateral statistical-linguistic matches we revealed between the VMS Herbal Section (folios 5r-38v) and the magical Tables of Liber Loagaeth render them into the same linguistic university class.
Quote: This suggests that most likely the Voynich manuscript carries no rationally comprehensible content, offering also a plausible explanation why the ciphertext was unbreakable so far. These inferences together with its fantastic, yet contemporary credible illustrations render the Voynich manuscript most likely an elaborate hoax.
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| My Queries about the Manuscript |
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Posted by: caitlin_B200 - 31-01-2020, 12:34 PM - Forum: Voynich Talk
- Replies (17)
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Qurie 1 - How did the scientists working on the manuscript, decide that the manuscript was from Italy. I did some background research on the manuscript, and I found it was made out of cowskin vellum. Cow skin vellum was used predominantly in England and France, not Italy. In Italy, goats skin vellum was used instead.
Quire 2- Why do people think that Bacon wrote the manuscript? The manuscript has been carbon dated to the 15th century. Bacon was born and had died by the start of the 13th century, thats 2 century's to early.
From what I have gathered from some basic reading about the manuscript, I believe that it was written in France, not Italy. I don't know if this is helpful, but could someone please answer my questions?
Thank you
Caitlin
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| More cleartext in the MS? |
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Posted by: ReneZ - 22-01-2020, 07:28 AM - Forum: Analysis of the text
- Replies (56)
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This has been mentioned before, but I am not sure if it was in this forum.
On f68r2 there is a moon with a face near the top and a sun with a face near the bottom.
Both have circular texts around them. For the bottom one, there is one word, between 08:00 and 09:00, that does not look like Voynichese writing, but like cleartext. However, it is not all that easy to read.
Who can make anything of this?
EDIT: does it say 'sond' ? Could this be some dialect version of 'Sonne' (German for Sun)?
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