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Welcome, Guest You have to register before you can post on our site. Username/Email:    Password    Remember me Search Forums (Advanced Search) Online Users There are currently 334 online users. » 5 Member(s) | 325 Guest(s) Applebot, Bing, Google, Yandex, Aga Tentakulus, dashstofsk, Pepper Latest Threads It is not Chinese Forum: Voynich Talk Last Post: dashstofsk Less than 1 minute ago » Replies: 0 » Views: 1 ol most likely translates... Forum: Analysis of the text Last Post: Pepper 8 minutes ago » Replies: 2 » Views: 174 What Lies Beneath: Statis... Forum: Analysis of the text Last Post: quimqu 1 hour ago » Replies: 9 » Views: 238 Wherefore art thou, aberi... Forum: Imagery Last Post: MarcoP 1 hour ago » Replies: 7 » Views: 201 Unpainted version of VMS Forum: News Last Post: oshfdk 9 hours ago » Replies: 57 » Views: 7,282 [split] Darker ink, retra... Forum: Voynich Talk Last Post: Koen G Yesterday, 05:50 PM » Replies: 66 » Views: 1,556 Pisces (Folio 70v) and th... Forum: Astrology Last Post: Dobri Yesterday, 01:37 PM » Replies: 33 » Views: 3,783 Voynich Manuscript Day sh... Forum: News Last Post: Koen G Yesterday, 08:50 AM » Replies: 6 » Views: 338 Single Leg Gallows Forum: Analysis of the text Last Post: Jorge_Stolfi 07-06-2025, 02:14 PM » Replies: 34 » Views: 1,129 An attempt at extracting ... Forum: Analysis of the text Last Post: davidd 07-06-2025, 12:27 PM » Replies: 69 » Views: 4,542

Portolan Map Possibilities Posted by: Linda - 02-03-2019, 05:45 PM - Forum: Imagery - Replies (48) I am starting this thread to collect information that might support the hypothesis that quires 13 and 14, and possibly others, encode information from which a portolan map could be drawn. This hypothesis is an extension of others, in that quire 13 imagery can be interpreted as a periplus, and quire 14 can be interpreted as a map, but which of course is not a physical mapping, but may contain hints as to how to draw a portolan map which would pull information from the imagery and text to draw a reasonably accurate map that can be recognized as such. The rosettes may indicate the windroses that must first be drawn. I believe some of the imagery with regard to the rosettes, and within quire 13 may provide clues as to the locations of the centers of these circles, and places they link to. For instance, the NW rosette shows what may be Vesuvius, the famous volcano. I believe the Alps are shown in the spiral, and as this is centred in the rosette, i posit that a windrose is to be drawn in the vicinty of the Alps, with one of the lines going through Naples. In quire 13 on You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. there stands a nymph in what appears to be Lake Garda, which is situated near the Alps. She holds a tool which could be a caliper or possibly a compass, and may indicate the exact location of the above noted rosette's center. Resources Here is a link to a cartography site which is involved with drawing portolan maps to back engineer the process.  You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. Historical Examples I will also be checking known portolans for similarities in case this may aid in corellating the data points against the text, or to help search for more clues in the imagery. So far the Catalan Atlas, one of the most famous of the portolan maps, seems a good match with what I have posited so far, and is also the map with pangolin-scale-like mountains, ie may have been referenced on You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. in its portrayal of what I take to be the Alps. It is also said that the Venetian maps concentrated on the periplus info, ie they concentrated on shorelines, whereas the Catalan school included inland details. Due having seen indications of riparian alternate routes in quire 13, I believe this would indicate an alignment with the Catalan style of maps produced in Majorca and Barcelona, or someone following in that tradition. Found in Pisa, thought to be made circa 1275 but could be 1375 1325-1350  Pietro Vesconte, 1311 Venice Pizigani brothers, 1367 Venice Cresques Abraham, 1375 Majorca   116v blog comment Posted by: -JKP- - 01-03-2019, 09:14 AM - Forum: Marginalia - Replies (23) Diane O'Donovan has a new blog that I was not aware of until very recently (Nick Pelling alluded to it on his blog). In it, she wrote: "I’ve recently seen it asserted,  with no evidence offered and my  request for directions to the original argument refused with some vigour,  that someone has argued a case for considering inscription of the German (and only the German) marginalia so closely contemporary with the rest of the work that we should believe  the whole manuscript to be, in some sense, a product of German culture." She did not identify who wrote (or said) this and I've never seen anyone assert this (nor have I seen anyone refuse directions to an argument "with some vigour"). Has anyone else seen a recent assertion that "the inscription of the German... marginalia" means "we should believe the whole manuscript to be... a product of German culture"?   Rosette volcano as Vesuvius Posted by: Linda - 28-02-2019, 08:58 AM - Forum: Imagery - Replies (8) Hey there. Someone recently said it would be ridiculous that this image could be identified as a specific volcano, but I figure the idea might have some merit, and i think there may be visual evidence to support this idea. That pic is from pre 79 AD, as it was buried in the Pompei eruption, i.e. this is sometime before the eruption. Note the knob to one side, the bump on the other side. Some angular difference in the view, but not much. Sometimes it looks like the knob is in the back on the fresco, but i think it is on the side. Also because when you compare with a painting from the west, it is a quarter turn away. So the vms and fresco are both views from southwest. This one, from the west, from about 1575, shows the hole that existed before the eruption of 1631. Probably pretty similar to what would have been the case in the early 1400s. If you turned it 45 degrees clockwise, would that not be just about right, including the belly-like protrusion? Except the caldera is not drawn in the vms, just the vesuvius part, that is why it doesn't look the same on the lower left. Here is a view from the top that shows various stages in its life.  Here is its situation, you can see that the 1575 painting would be from the vantagepoint of the eastern edge of the pozzuoli circle, 3 o clock. That would put the vms and pompei view from the gulf, right angle to the shore and volcano between naples and pompei, approximately the same distance away. What do you think? Can this be considered as plausible?  Not high enough? I figure this is a similar angle to the pompei fresco, you can see the caldera in the fresco as the part with black paint, lower left corner.   [split] (lack of) scribal mistakes / corrections Posted by: -JKP- - 13-02-2019, 10:29 AM - Forum: Analysis of the text - Replies (74) On the one hand, I am quite sure there are scribal errors in the VMS, there are things that LOOK like errors (are out of character with the rest of the textual patterns) and there are places where actual corrections can be seen. On the other hand, Jewish scribes were taught to copy the Torah WITHOUT ERRORS. They were simply not permitted to make errors. Out it goes and start again. So... where does the VMS fit? I don't know. There are errors that may be identifiable, and then there are errors that would not be evident unless one understood the structure or meaning behind the text. I don't get the feeling that the number of errors in the VMS is large (there's a fair degree of consistency). The feeling I get is that it may have been pre-written (pre-ciphered?) and then copied. It's fairly orderly and tidy. It seems like almost an impossible task to create the rosettes page in one go. Getting things to fit comfortably in a circle (and in a group of circles) is not easy. Usually it requires rough sketches first.   F79r as Mesopotamia Posted by: Linda - 06-02-2019, 09:39 PM - Forum: Imagery - Replies (6) You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. shows the Euphrates and Tigris rivers, and explains how the silting of the Persian Gulf has caused the features that exist today. It also tells us there existed a river civilisation that has been lost to rising water levels. Rivers are shown as tubes. The wolkenbands are coming from a hole, the Euphrates arises. The blue tells me this is fresh water, mountain runoff and/or springs. The scalloped bits at the start of the river tells me the rivers cut through rock. There are hot springs involved, as indicated by the red band around the river tube.  Neotectonic map of Turkey shows the faults in the area of the rising of the Euphrates. Numerous hot springs are noted near the Armenia Turkey border. The Euphrates rises near Mount Ararat, a dormant volcano.  Next we see a mountain which is feeding both the Euphrates and various streams which eventually become the Tigris river, denoted by the new tube. The Tigris rises near the southern Taurus mountains. Note that true to life, it starts south of the Euphrates, to the eastern side of it, north is up on this page. There are then two tubes. That they are side by side and short is an obfuscation, Mesopotamia means land between the rivers, but then no land is drawn in the quire, it is only the water. The two then come together as one, which is the case in reality as well, the Shaṭṭ Al-ʿArab is a 200km silty river fed by both that flows into the Persian Gulf. The other parts are a deconstruction of northern part of the Persian Gulf as caused by the river silt. Note the curvy shaped bays and the double bump in the middle. Symmetrical curvey bays. They are upside down but the circles, or ports, are the parts attached to the gulf, so once you attach them in your mind to the top of the gulf, they will be correctly oriented. The greenishness of the water means it is brackish, caused by backflow currents of sea water into these areas.  The silt and the currents splitting off created the double bump that occurs where modern day Iran and Iraq meet at the top of the Persian Gulf. Deconstructing the process also obfuscates the diagram, it is not so much a direct visual than a string of visuals which must be reconstructed in one's thoughts in order to see the whole.  The tube in the gulf is showing ancient knowledge that the gulf was not always there in the configuration we now know (or knew in the 15th century), that the river continued southward, but rising water levels swallowed it up. Given that the oldest known civilizations started in this general area, such knowledge being retained would not be beyond the realm of possibility. It need only be between stage 3 and 4 that we are talking about, the Sumerians were there around the end of stage 4.  What do you think? Can you see what i see? It is more like reading the individual images as a story than looking at a picture, but it is all there.   Little Castles or Monasteries? Posted by: Alyx Black - 01-02-2019, 05:40 AM - Forum: Imagery - Replies (1) Someone I was chatting with was telling me their theory and transcription of the two piece foldout with the 9 circular areas.  They kinda had a farout concept for the diagram.  So I started to look at it and the little castle and then I happened to be looking at some churches and monasteries and came across this picture of the Monastery of St. Katherine.  I also started to think maybe this is a map of pilgrimage but I need to look into this idea further.  Also found one more pic related to S Katherine that looks like pilgrimage to the surrounding monastery or churches. Attached Files   F2800613-9B9E-4571-BA59-3DB589386A7D.jpeg (Size: 121.7 KB / Downloads: 70)   87F66B59-6C71-4ECC-A2CD-0EA4BB52432F.jpeg (Size: 58.2 KB / Downloads: 70)   3B7F61DF-2E98-4ADD-9E19-7253540D714A.jpeg (Size: 94.28 KB / Downloads: 65)   Women’s Anatomy Posted by: Alyx Black - 31-01-2019, 11:33 PM - Forum: Imagery - Replies (38) I know there was a thread covering this but I am going to bring it up again about the image that is of the Fallopian tubes.  I happen to be on a site that had this as just a snippet of the picture with no text and said hey that looks familiar. I showed to a friend that stopped by and they again said the same thing.  I am sure the VM was written by a woman or women, for herbs, medicines, perfumes, astrology, women’s health, spiritual health. Attached Files   F3C6ACCD-EB08-4356-9F47-BC4F92ABE367.jpeg (Size: 46.33 KB / Downloads: 196)   2F5E3772-166C-4938-96D7-4E1BC12684FE.jpeg (Size: 39.64 KB / Downloads: 302)   Leipzig University call for digitization Posted by: Koen G - 28-01-2019, 11:22 PM - Forum: News - Replies (6) You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. I just saw this news but have not yet been able to browse their catalogue to see if anything might be of interest. The University of Leipzig will digitize 100 of its medieval manuscripts based on researchers' requests. Quote:Thanks to renewed funding by the Digitization Program of Saxony the Leipzig University Library (UL) will continue in 2019 to systematically digitize its medieval manuscript holdings. Since a first Call for Digitization Requests in 2018 generated a high number of responses, the UBL invites researchers once more to suggest manuscripts for digitization. In 2019, the UL will increase the amount of digitization work devoted to academic needs, reserving up to a 100 manuscripts for requests by researchers. Should you therefore wish for a manuscript in the Library’s collection to be digitized free of charge, please send a brief statement of your proposal along with a description of your research project to handschriftenzentrum@ub.uni-leipzig.de no later than March 15, 2019. You can check at our digital collections whether the manuscript in which you are interested has already been digitized. The first 100 requests to be received will be selected for digitization, providing that they meet the usual conservation criteria. Once completed, the digitizations will be provided by way of the presentation page of the UL via the Mirador Viewer as well as through the portal Sachsen.Digital. In keeping with the UL’s Open Access-Policy, the digitizations will be made available in the public domain without restrictions regarding their use. We will let you know by April 30, 2019 whether your digitization request can be met. The UL Leipzig thanks you for your interest in our manuscript collection. If there are any manuscripts that could be useful for VM research, we might discuss and group them here and see how we could go about requesting them?   VMS - Language Families Casting Posted by: Gavin Güldenpfennig - 28-01-2019, 06:01 PM - Forum: Analysis of the text - Replies (36) Dear VMS - fans, I´m new here, so I don´t know this forum enough to do everything right. If my thread was a theme before, then, please, show me the old thread, and I will immediately delete this one.  And sorry for my very bad English!   We, Germans, should not do this!  The Voynich Manuscript accompanies me since my school time (now: for nearly ten years). Back then I played a very little role in a detective series episode (Pater Castell: Das Voynich Manuskript). Since this time, I tried to find at least the language family the Voynich Manuscript belongs to. I´ve only studied German and History after my school, but I have written my final exam in a subject called "Language History". So I think, I can say, that I know how words changed over the years. But that isn´t enough to decode the VMS.  You have to know at least to which family or families of languages it could related to. I have a founded idea now for one VMS language family, which is based on some translation attempts of the VMS plants section, and a check by a "native speaker" of (one of) the last possible descendants of the possible language family. But before I can follow my theory of a double- (or: maybe triple-) language provenience of the manuscript, I have to check, if there are any problems with the central hypothesis. So I ask you for the following helps: 1. Are there any language families, which are completely impossible as VMS language and if yes, why? 2. Is it possible, that the VMS, as we know it today, could be a copy of an older book? 3. Are there any living or dead language families, which are "hot candidates" for the VMS language and if yes, why? 4. Could you imagine, that somebody from the "Old World" (Europe, Asia, Africa) would "encode" a manuscript, at the time around 1000 - 1500 AD, to hide discoveries in the "New World" (America)? 5. Is it absolutely clear, that Rudolf II. and Jacobus de Tepenece were the first owners of the manuscript or do we know more about the VMS owners today? To make it clear:  I have an idea, where the VMS could be from, but I´m not a native speaker of these languages. Furthermore I don´t have a full VMS decoding alphabet, but maybe enough letters to translate some pages, but only in the plant section. My system definitely doesn´t fit for all sections. If I´m right with my theory the plant language is dead today and the other one may lives, but I´m not really sure. If anybody wants to know which languages I suspect, he can write a personal message to me. I could write it here, too, but I don´t want to influence the discussion more than necessary.    Word Q13 and Q20 analysis. Posted by: Wladimir D - 25-01-2019, 05:57 AM - Forum: Analysis of the text - Replies (15) I wrote a blog in Russian. You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.  I compared the distribution of words in Q13 and Q20 separately, if we take the You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. and the upper part of the text You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. as a base of comparison. For comparison, the distribution was taken when the You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. 1r was used as a base. Hyperlinks are very large. You must wait. The diagrams show the “amount of overlapping information” for each bifolio. The subtleties of reasoning I can not translate into English, so I publish here only preliminary conclusions. 1 / The text on each bifolio was written before stitching them into the book Q20. 2 / The text of Q13 is highly specialized (not narrative). 3 / The last paragraph 116r is an imitation of the epilogue. 4 / Language “B” is gibberish. * / 2-4 For the replacement character cipher First Previous Next Last