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List of "weird" vords
Forum: Analysis of the text
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1 hour ago
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Month names collection / ...
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I've deciphered the Voyni...
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Planetary Root Assignment...
Forum: Analysis of the text
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Switch System
Forum: Analysis of the text
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Which plaintext languages...
Forum: Analysis of the text
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Should we have a thread t...
Forum: Voynich Talk
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Critique wanted
Forum: Voynich Talk
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Pisces (Folio 70v) and th...
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The Canary islands
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Half Sword ( medieval combat game ) |
Posted by: bi3mw - 04-05-2025, 04:28 PM - Forum: Fiction, Comics, Films & Videos, Games & other Media
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This game seems to be quite brutal but also quite entertaining.
Game Description ( from the developers ):
Quote:Half Sword is an immersive, physically simulated medieval combat game that offers players a unique experience of becoming a commoner-turned-knight, fighting brutal tournaments in 15th-century Europe. With its innovative gameplay mechanic, players can use their mouse to control their swords, allowing them to feel the intensity of each battle as they rise through the ranks and face off against formidable opponents.
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At the top right of the page are the links to Steam and YouTube. There are now also some Let`s Play on Youtube.
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lyrics and music? |
Posted by: extent_of_foxes - 03-05-2025, 11:58 PM - Forum: Analysis of the text
- Replies (14)
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If you write out the words and melody of a song, breaking the lyrics into syllables, the resulting "words" have unusual structure. A simple example to explain what I mean:
twink1 le1 twink5 le5 lit6 tle6 star5long how4 I4 won3 der3 what2 you2 are1long
The numbers are the degrees of the scale, which is not, I believe, how medieval music theory worked, but this is just an illustration. Another example:
ut1 que2 ant4 la23 xis2long re2 so2 na1 re2 fi3long bris3long mi35 ra3 ge2 sto31 rum2long
For this latter example, I used a real historical song in Latin (albeit one significantly earlier than the Voynich MS), which contains more melismas (syllables extended over multiple notes).
I arranged the consonants in a way that seems more natural to me as an amateur singer: in the places where they are pronounced. So, fi-bris, not fib-ris. This could cause syllables to have more internal structure. A language might normally allow many consonants at the end of syllables, but in this writing method, most final consonants are only allowed to stay in that position when there is no following syllable to attach them to instead.
Music notation has items which appear at the beginning of sections and rarely elsewhere: clefs, section names, part indications in polyphonic music. Also, there is a symbol that appears at the end of lines in some historical notation, the You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view., which even vaguely resembles the EVA "m".
I believe that melodic markings on text are historically known, such as You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. .
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. mentions that there have been attempts at a musical interpretation - can you point me towards any further information?
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We need a list of useful Voynich research |
Posted by: Koen G - 02-05-2025, 02:04 PM - Forum: Voynich Talk
- Replies (25)
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I've been thinking about it for a while, and it feels more and more appropriate that we, as a community of Voynich researchers, collect and maintain a list of links to useful Voynich research, articles, resources etc. This would address a whole range of problems:
1) I keep hearing from people (e.g. commenters on my videos) that they would like to read more, but find the field overwhelming. Like it or not, but there's a lot of theorist drivel among Voynich writings, and newcomers lack the context to judge these. Keep in mind that Cheshire was published in a peer reviewed journal, and outlets like academia.edu further muddy the waters.
2) It has happened more times than I dare to admit that I've been looking into a topic, only to find out much later that Nick Pelling already wrote about it when I was still in high school. Yes, I know, google is your friend, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't strive for more convenience for all. Some of the actual good research is genuinely hard to find. Tucked away in some blog post or an ancient, dilapidated website... For example, I know that Julian Bunn wrote some good things about statistics, but I don't remember what exactly. If I had an overview with links and a very brief description of the contents, I would probably make more use of these
How to proceed?
I am willing to maintain the list in the curated threads section, but it would have to be a group effort. I propose that if you have published something that should be on the list, you start by submitting your own research. A link and one or two lines of explanation. You know the best what you have written, so you're the one who's best placed to add your stuff.
The bulk of the list will of course be things written by people who aren't active here, which we can add gradually, whenever you think of it or come across it.
We will need a way to decide what should and should not be on the list, without fights emerging. A list we maintain implies that we believe the research is good, or at least worth reading for someone interested in the topic at hand. How do we determine this?
A first filter should be: no text solutions. We have separate list for those.
But what if someone submits something that's not a solution, but still so bad and flawed that I cannot in good conscience encourage people to read it? I would really see this activity as a service to researchers and newcomers alike, to help people see the forest through the trees. Part of that service is us using our experience to select the pieces of research that are most useful or informative about various categories.
There has to be some curating involved. How can we do this? I'd like to have some system figured out before we start.
So I'd like to hear your ideas, and if there are enough people interested in this to make it work.
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LJS 51 Collection of alphabets and encoded correspondence |
Posted by: Bluetoes101 - 01-05-2025, 11:34 PM - Forum: Voynich Talk
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Credit to original poster on reddit - You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
I'm not sure if this has been posted here before (can't find if so).
Some info below, if you would like anything further it will (hopefully) be contained within the links.
Collection of encrypted correspondence - You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
Lawrence J. Schoenberg Collection - You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
Summary
Collection of encrypted correspondence between the compiler and various correspondents, in approximately 150 alphabets, accompanied by transcriptions of the letters in Arabic. The compiler cites Shihāb al-Dīn al-Jindī al-ʻAlāʼī, Burhān al-Dīn al-Qudsī, and Taqī al-Dīn Muḥammad ibn Jaʻfar al-Ḥusaynī as authorities for some of the alphabets. The manuscript is incomplete, lacking its beginning and end. Occasional marginal notes. Some worm damage in margins.
Publisher
University of Pennsylvania
Language
Arabic
Origin
Possibly written in Syria, in the 15th century.
Script
Written in naskh script.
LJS 51
About the Lawrence J. Schoenberg Collection - You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
In 2011, University of Pennsylvania Libraries Board members Barbara Brizdle Schoenberg and Lawrence J. Schoenberg donated their manuscript collection of nearly 300 manuscripts and documents to the Penn Libraries, half of which are from medieval and Renaissance Europe. With its emphasis on the history of science and the transmission of knowledge across time and geography, the Schoenberg Collection brings together many of the great scientific and philosophical traditions of the ancient and medieval worlds. Documenting the extraordinary achievements of scholars, philosophers, and scientists active in pre-modern Europe, Africa, and Asia, the collection illuminates the foundations of our shared intellectual heritage.
Here are some glyph comparisons which I find interesting to one extent or another, I like EVA: "t" and "qo" most.
I have left out "extended EVA" and other odd glyphs other than the first page weirdo, there's probably more good comparisons others can find.
I went to around 38v, plus some near the end. There's a lot of pages in between.
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Templars as creators of the Voynich Manuscript (folio 1r) |
Posted by: Gregor - 30-04-2025, 11:10 AM - Forum: Imagery
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This above statement of mine, contained in the title of this entry, may seem very difficult, even impossible to prove. But this is only an appearance.
Those of those who have any, even the smallest, knowledge about these two elements: (Templars - who, and the Manuscript - what), after reading the title of this entry, may deny it a priori, because the basic condition of the coincidence of the duration of this Order with the time of the creation of the Voynich Manuscript is not met. As is commonly known, the Order was suspended in 1312 and then dissolved in 1314, while the parchment's date of creation using isotope dating is considered to be between 1404 and 1438.
All well and good, but the history of the Order does not end with the burning of Grand Master Jacques de Molay at the stake - their knowledge and methods of camouflage survived in other places, previously prepared for the hoarding of their achievements.
In order to prove the main thesis of my claim: about the agency of the Poor Knights of Christ in the compilation of this hitherto unsolved artifact, it will be necessary to correctly interpret the graphic image of Abraxas, which appears on the seal of the Grand Master of the Templars on a French document dated 1214.
"The word Abraxas (or Abrasax or Abracax) was inscribed on certain ancient stones, called Abraxas stones, which were used as amulets or talismans by Gnostic sects. The image most commonly associated with Abraxas is that of a composite creature with the head of a rooster, the body of a man, and legs made of snakes or scorpions; carrying a whip and shield. The Gnostics identified Abraxas with Yahweh (under the Greek form "IAO"). Amulets and seals depicting the figure of Abraxas were popular in the 2nd century, and these stones survive in medieval treasuries. Abraxas appears on the seal of the Grand Master of the Knights Templar on a French document dated 1214..."
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![[Image: Abraxas_Artistic_representationi.jpg]](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/24/Abraxas_Artistic_representationi.jpg)
"Abraxas (Biblical Greek: ἀβραξάς , romanized: abraxas, variant form ἀβράναξ romanized: abranax) is a word of mystical meaning in the system of the Gnostic Basilides, applied there to the "Great Archon" (megas archōn), princeps of the 365 spheres (ouranoi). The word is found in Gnostic texts such as The Holy Book of the Great Invisible Spirit , and also appears in the Greek Magical Papyri. It was engraved on some ancient gemstones, therefore called Abraxas stones, which were used as amulets or charms. Since the original spelling on the stones was Abrasax (Αβρασαξ ), the spelling of the name Abraxas that we see today probably has its origin in a confusion of the Greek letters sigma (Σ) and xi (Ξ) in the Latin transcription."
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[/url]![[Image: abraxas_14282_lg.gif]](https://glorian.org/images/stories/symbols/abraxas_14282_lg.gif)
The most important meaning of this word, as well as the graphic symbol of Abraxas - is the drawing itself. It only needs to be interpreted correctly.
![[Image: 495125376_1286739246789902_4717704721572...e=6817B642]](https://scontent-ham3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/495125376_1286739246789902_4717704721572479162_n.jpg?_nc_cat=101&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=127cfc&_nc_ohc=8Me9KKeavkAQ7kNvwH4JXqU&_nc_oc=AdlCninWhl2EkwdLAyirxQrCBj4N37Fom5x-UMfj2TSkNmg9GL4KAF2Mjr7DCrPaygA&_nc_zt=23&_nc_ht=scontent-ham3-1.xx&_nc_gid=-xkCU1-xiPeWQ2TDOQgyzA&oh=00_AfFArhSeCj-Ozxx5PY0B85DhwCGjib90kpSb_MI3lTgjbw&oe=6817B642)
Starting from the bottom of this encoded in the schematic drawing, the individual stages of the creation and collapse of the universe should be specified:
1. Legs made of snakes - their spreading shape encodes information about the first inflationary stage of the universe just after the Big Bang.
2. Above you can see the covering of intimate parts of the body - its shape is to symbolize the spatial distribution of the relic radiation, i.e. the Microwave Background Radiation.
3. The body and widely spread arms - in the intention of the creators of this code are all the subsequent stages of the development of matter and energy of the universe (the formation of galaxies, solar systems, planets...) In one hand Abraxas holds a whip, while in the other something that resembles a shield - to me it is more associated with the evolutionary nature of the creation of Life on Earth. Let me remind you that the body of this creature has the body of a human.
4. The rooster head of Abraxas also has its "rational" explanation. The crowing of the rooster symbolizes the beginning of something new - a new day. It is a time for change, but also as in Judaism: the crowing of roosters is a sign of revelation that comes from heaven. And so: the collapse of the universe is a change and a fundamental one, it is also a "revelation" that will come and irrevocably from heaven. The wavy shape of the crown of the rooster's head - is the final end of the current universe, after which "soon" after the next Big Bang it will evolve anew.
And this, and no other, is the encoded meaning of the Abraxas ideogram on the seal of the Grand Master of the Templars – it provides information about the cyclical nature of the formation and collapse of the Universe.
![[Image: 495053948_1286742536789573_6271473911105...e=6817E0E9]](https://scontent-ham3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/495053948_1286742536789573_6271473911105115072_n.jpg?_nc_cat=105&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=127cfc&_nc_ohc=O6blf5oaLjsQ7kNvwECVbOV&_nc_oc=AdlxuE8QbJW63gYnbuXk35QsriVcNRK0X9Na6iXV5Y60joLUF_oMYmwwUG6zQb-SXPE&_nc_zt=23&_nc_ht=scontent-ham3-1.xx&_nc_gid=O07jbKKKX_1sb5nFWGrDGg&oh=00_AfG0Qty0gGhdfyIIvV9kApmsG-hBicgUtuYlASy5i-fe7g&oe=6817E0E9)
![[Image: 494490053_1286743963456097_5440783030841...e=6817C359]](https://scontent-ham3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/494490053_1286743963456097_5440783030841703669_n.jpg?_nc_cat=111&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=127cfc&_nc_ohc=8LvAywNWl8AQ7kNvwGoWIvC&_nc_oc=AdmXhVufa4ksM4NdGw4Gnf4S0N3GwaXbqIkhPYTudeGufBwMeMvGoiOt3dkcNsL8txY&_nc_zt=23&_nc_ht=scontent-ham3-1.xx&_nc_gid=XooFxNiy2G2RLuKniESelA&oh=00_AfF1AE_yzkKJOYY7yDO92f7P6MIITP61rBDqpskZ0KZquw&oe=6817C359)
At this point, the question arises – what is the connection between the shape of the Abraxas ideogram and folio 1r of the Voynich Manuscript? Well, it has a cardinal meaning. If we were to modify the shape of the two most important elements of folio 1r in a way that is consistent with the intentions of the creators of this Manuscript – the two signs on this folio – in a way that is correct and consistent with the intentions of the creators of this Manuscript, then their entire secret will reveal to us the wealth of symbolism hidden from the profane.
To find out, we need to combine both signs into a whole – with the first element placed at the bottom in the opposite position, while the second one should be placed at the top. Thanks to this procedure, we will see a figure similar in shape to Abraxas – its meaning is also identical. And therein lies the whole secret of folio 1r.
![[Image: 494266611_1285296766934150_9123155076724...e=6817AC3E]](https://scontent-ham3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/494266611_1285296766934150_9123155076724090410_n.jpg?_nc_cat=103&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=127cfc&_nc_ohc=UUrprMi8PTMQ7kNvwHLSr-P&_nc_oc=AdmewPEAj1p2ryAObyVrQUOdxzzFIOIyjFe4AM8-qSjNao5KTkUy2uKc2uvvfoO9Grk&_nc_zt=23&_nc_ht=scontent-ham3-1.xx&_nc_gid=VIDQHe5P9yCdphwhxoIIFQ&oh=00_AfFY8tbu9NBw1Wk5_59hnBrLDcB7ia1kPk2XHmteQMipEQ&oe=6817AC3E)
"The magic word "Ablanathanalba", which in Greek is read the same backwards as forwards, also occurs on the Abraxas stones as well as on the magic papyri. This word is usually considered to come from Hebrew (Aramaic) and means "You are our father" (אב לן את), and also occurs in reference to Abraxas; the following inscription is found on a metal plate in the Karlsruhe Museum:
АВРАΣАΞ
ΑΒΛΑΝΑΘ
ΑΝΑΛΒΑ"
[url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abraxas]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abraxas
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Proposition intuitive. |
Posted by: Keriast - 30-04-2025, 06:11 AM - Forum: Analysis of the text
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Une idée fugace sur le manuscrit de Voynich, posée là.
Pas une théorie béton, juste une sensation qui m’a traversé.
Et si ce bouquin… n’était pas fait pour être "lu", ni traduit, mais juste ressenti ?
J’ai repensé à ce que je ressens parfois quand je fais une petite création perso :
la feuille entière prend un sens, même les trucs involontaires — une tache, une pliure, l’odeur du papier…
Et ça m’a frappé : et si le Voynich, c’était pareil ?
Pas un langage avec des règles, mais une espèce de langage émotionnel, où chaque mot serait comme un son intérieur, une humeur.
Les lettres qui changent dans les mots, ce serait pas des erreurs ou des codes, mais des modulations sensibles : intensité, nuance, tension, douceur…
Les dessins aussi : ils font un peu test de Rorschach. Tu les regardes, et tu projettes quelque chose sans que ce soit clairement défini.
Ils t’orientent vers une émotion, une ambiance. Comme si le sens venait de toi, pas du livre.
Et tout ça, mis ensemble, ferait un truc presque synesthésique :
une lecture qui n’est pas dans les mots, mais dans les ressentis.
Comme une partition mentale que chacun joue différemment.
Et c’est peut-être pour ça qu’on n’arrive pas à le reproduire, ni à le décrypter.
Parce qu’il n’existe qu’à l’instant de sa création, à travers la personne qui l’a écrit, dans son état d’âme du moment.
C’est pas un message universel. C’est un instant unique, devenu objet.
Voilà. Une intuition, sans prétention.
Je la balance là comme elle m’est venue.
Bonne journée à tous.
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Linguistic Patterns Before Decipherment: A Key to Understanding Unknown Texts |
Posted by: Urtx13 - 29-04-2025, 12:32 AM - Forum: Analysis of the text
- Replies (32)
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One of the significant challenges in working with unknown or undeciphered manuscripts, such as the VMS, is the temptation to immediately “decode” them by matching words, tokens, or glyphs to a known language through direct translation attempts.
However, I would like to reflect on the history of linguistic and philological studies. One lesson stands out clearly: understanding the internal structure of a language often precedes and enables successful translation, rather than being a consequence of it.
(This principle is not only historical but also literary)
I like the example of J.R.R. Tolkien: when he created his Elvish languages (Quenya, Sindarin, etc.), he built them from the inside out. Tolkien first designed phonological patterns, rhythms, internal grammars, and aesthetic structures before assigning stable translations to words. He understood that a credible language must have internal consistency and recognizable patterns, even if its dictionary is initially unknown. Without internal structure, a language feels artificial and cannot sustain meaning over time.
Similarly, even modern English, which seems globally dominant, will eventually fragment if left unchecked for a long time. Its internal rhythms, syntax, and patterns of use (formal, informal, poetic, administrative) will be essential clues for future scholars attempting to reconstruct it, should direct transmission of meaning be lost. Globalization has slowed geographic divergence, but internal linguistic evolution is unstoppable, just as Latin diversified into the Romance languages over centuries.
Why is this important for the VMS?
Because even without a direct decipherment, identifying structural patterns — whether in vocabulary frequency, thematic clustering, or phase-based rhythms — can offer us a way to understand how the text was composed. It can reveal whether it behaves like natural language, liturgical formula, mnemonic code, or something entirely different.
Just like Tolkien’s Elvish languages were immediately recognizable as coherent systems (even without knowing what every word meant), the Voynich Manuscript might reveal its internal organization independently of translation. Recognizing these structures is not just speculative: it follows the path historically used to decipher other ancient texts.
In short:
Suppose we can detect rhythm, structure, and phases in the Voynich Manuscript, even without complete translation. In that case, we are engaging with it in the most historically grounded and linguistically rigorous way possible.
What are your thoughts?
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