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| My thoughts after discovering Voynich 10 years ago |
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Posted by: sunflowerleaf - 30-03-2025, 02:25 AM - Forum: Voynich Talk
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Hello, I am a person who found out about the voynich manuscript 10 years ago, and although I haven't been actively trying to solve it since then, it has been a mystery that stuck at the back of my mind. And I would like to share my thoughts that I have concluded after this time of being familiar with the manuscript. Feel free to argue/criticize my claims.
I feel almost certain that the voynich manuscript is a medical manuscript. The reason why I came to this conclusion is because the parts of the manuscript fits excellent with the parts that would be included in a medical manuscript of it's time, while any other kind of manuscript doesn't make as much sense, so by using the exclusion method, I believe a medical manuscript is the most logical solution.
The parts in questions are what I consider to be the herbal sections, cosmological section, astrological section, mappa mundi, and anatomical section with the humours. To me, it also makes the most logical sense why someone in the 1400s would encode a medical manuscript, due to taboos of the time as well as protecting secrets.
I believe that not only the text is concealed, but also the images, and that's why they look so weird. While I think it makes sense to look for geographical influences in the images, I think people are making a mistake when they try to interpret the images literally, because clearly they aren't depicted directly. It makes sense to me that they are drawn oddly, because if they weren't, the medical secrets and potential taboos that the text wants to keep hidden, could be revealed by the images, and the person who created the manuscript clearly wanted to keep the content hidden.
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Could there be more documents written in voynichese ? |
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Posted by: VoyBear - 22-03-2025, 04:45 PM - Forum: Voynich Talk
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Were the archives of Collegium romanum (the last pre-voynich owner as I understand) ever queried for more voynichese related documents? What if the manuscript is just a book explaining voynichese grammar and all the illustrations are just allegories for its intricacies lol.
But seriously, if someone made such a good job at making sure that nobody unqualified will understand something they wanted to share, would they really do so within the location of one community ? Im assuming that when there is no need for the information to travel long distances, there is also less motivation for security of the transfer. If the six or more scribes who wrote the VM all lived in one place at one time, and they all knew the same info they put into the book, would they really be motivated to do so with such a centuries-of-attempts-defying level of security, if the information wasnt meant to travel through space and time ? If the members of the community which wrote the manuscript really all lived in place at one time, wouldnt it be much easier for them to simply hide their valuable information and only access it during initiation of new members since the current ones already knew well what they themselves wrote and could afterall explain verbally ?
But it was more or less proved that the manuscript was intended for repeated use. Given that the book is small (not sure on this but werent medieval books usually larger than VM ?), fitting perfectly even into womans hands and also that it is probable it had a wood cover, the more likely it seems fit for traveling. If the information that the book contains was meant to be shared locally, they probably wouldnt need to spend such an effort to assemble the folios into a book when they could simply keep it as scrolls which are cheaper and easier to hide.
Also, it just doesnt seem likely to me that a community of 6 or more people would write this book at one time and place, if each one of them knew all the info that the book contains. There are cases of savant polymaths, but those people are rare. Usually, one is expert at one subject at a time, be it botany, astrology, balneology, pharmacy or literature. If all the scribes or non-scribing members of the community lived in one place, they could simply teach each other their respective craft without the need for making a secure and scalable means of transporting the data throughout the times and locations of other members. This would mean that the manuscript traveled across places of residency of each of the experts who kept adding to and possibly copying the current data.
Another thing is that no christian church, or any other medieval authority tried to destroy the manuscript, given that it often reached higher levels of society, it seems that nobody has ever considered the manuscript dangerous or heretical. If there was no danger in writing about bathing ladies, plants and stars, then why encipher it ? There could be many reasons, but the one which works in this scenario, is that the authors were actually embarassed sharing the information in the manuscript. Either because they were men who wrote about naked ladies performing health rituals (which was probably too gay even for a time when men wore tight yoga pants), or they were the naked ladies themselves.
Thats why I think the VM could have traveled between nunneries where each expert nun added her piece of research in a possibly different dialect or language (latin for speakers of other than the biggest languages back then whose speakers wrote in their native language), which would explain why we see variations of text structure between individual entries, with seemingly the same type of encoding which rearranges the symbols in some sort or which only serves as a reference to a key text (we all know that substitution cipher is out of the play by now).
That brings me to another possible clue, the bible. Did anyone ever tried finding correlations between VM and the bible ? All nuns had it or had access to it, it contains enough words to assemble a language out of and alot of the nuns probably had the bible memorized so well that they didnt have much trouble decoding the text. So what if its the key text ?
Finally, if the VM manuscript really traveled between places, accumulating knowledge, I think its more likely than not that there were more books like this. We just havent found them yet.
Thanks to everyone willing to talk about this and or correct me about stuff.
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| Doireann Herold's theory of Lepontic/Cisapline Celtic |
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Posted by: newamauta - 21-03-2025, 07:49 PM - Forum: Voynich Talk
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Hello all! I'm a new user just learning the ins and outs of this forum so please excuse me if I'm posting in the wrong place.
I wanted to discuss Doireann Herold's theory of the Voynich manuscript being written in phonetic Cisalpine Celtic with a "leptonic variation syntax". She believes the author might have been Christine De Pizan. She has been in contact with Lisa Fagin Davis and claims her translation "meets the criteria" that Dr. Fagin Davis laid out in her 2020 paper. There is a YouTube video in which she discusses her translation and she's currently looking for help from more fluent Irish speakers.
Podcast feature about her translation efforts (Around the 35 minute mark she starts to explain her theory)
I personally don't believe the author is Christine De Pizan (not sure if I should get into that) but I thought her theory of Irish/Celtic was interesting. It seems she's proposing something along the lines of a substitution cipher and claims there are not multiple languages within the text. What do you all think? Opinions on if this theory holds any merit?
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| A Cipher Thought Experiment |
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Posted by: trajan117 - 21-03-2025, 02:37 AM - Forum: Voynich Talk
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Hi, folks.
I just created an account here, so I don't know if anyone has done something similar to this before (also, let me know if this is the appropriate place to put this post). I just did a little experiment to create a cipher with only 13 glyphs and restrictive positional variation. I intend this as a fun exercise to see what kind of cipher I would come up with given these restrictions. I am including the cipher text in this post with no indication of how the cipher works, the language it is written in, or what the text itself says. I will tell you what languages I know: English (naturally), Latin, Ancient Greek, and Ancient Egyptian. Apologies if there are any errors. I tried my best to make it as clean as possible. Note that | indicates a line break. It isn't intended as a glyph. The glyphs used are G, K, L, M, N, O, P, R, S, T, /, +, and 4.
GTMOLRR/O MTNO/S NO/S LO TMO/ST OMP 4TO 4POLO/SNOLPNOLRNO/TGS OMP 4TNO/S KOLTMO NO KLONR LOR/RMOLOTGS SMOO GT/OGK MTNO/S KRMOLO/TMO/S SOMRO | NPMO/RGS LR/OGR GK/ORLT/S NO LOMR ONRLRGS LT/ONOGR MTNO/S MP/OR MPGONR 4O GT/OPMO GS/OGO TRMOLO/T MTNO/S LO/S MPGONR+ | 4OMP GS/OGO 4TLONPMO LOR/RMOLOTGS LPMOONR LOPRMO TO KRLO/KK MTNO/S KOLTMO MTONR NO LOMR LO MP/OOLR KOMR/PLO/RMOLT TO MTO | KLRMONPMO/R SKRNOLPMO GKT/O GK/ROTMO MTO NP/OGSNRO/TMS MRLONRGO/SKRNO/PT MTLO/T GK/OGOLRTNR/T SGO/RPRNO/SMO 4RO | MTO/RMO LO/RMO SMRLO/RT PMO/OPLRMO GTMO/RMO
I will come back with the solution in a few days if no one solves it. I won't indicate if someone is on the right track. But if someone is able to crack it, I'll respond. I hope someone solves it! 
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