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Plant in f7v 'has dots on its leaves'

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• Plant in f7v 'has dots on its leaves'

• Plant in f7v 'has dots on its leaves'

  Karenina > 03-12-2016, 07:50 PM

  About the plant in f7v: it struck me that it has a single dot on each of its leaves. I thought this might be an abstraction, and signify 'has dots on its leaves'. 
  
  In that case this plant could for instance be Lungwort (Pulmonaria officinalis), which has dotted leaves, little flowers, and belongs to the Boraginaceae, which in general have hairy leaves . 
  
  See pictures: Lungwort (Pulmonaria) in photo, in You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. MS Egerton 747 (Nicolaus of Salerno, Tractatus de herbis , c.1280-1310), and in Giorgio Bonelli’s, Hortus romanus, vol. 2, Rome, 1774, tab. 27.
  
             
  
  Is anyone aware of similar abstractions in representation in other herbal manuscripts of that time? 
  
  If was wondering if perhaps the 'image language' in the herbal section could be in general more abstract than one would expect.

• RE: Plant in f7v 'has dots on its leaves'

  Emma May Smith > 03-12-2016, 09:26 PM

  I think a key thing to consider is when the blue dots were added. While the intention of the painter may have been to represent dots in the way you suggest, the painter himself may have been too far removed to know the intentions of the line drawer.

• RE: Plant in f7v 'has dots on its leaves'

  Karenina > 03-12-2016, 10:10 PM

  You are right, I was forgetting that the colours were most probably added at a later time (and not impossibly even by someone who already could not understand the text anymore). 
   
  If we suppose for a moment that this plant is Longwort, then there is another oddity with the colors. I read that it is typical for Longwort that its flowers change colour over the season, from white-ish in early spring over red to purple later on. But in f7v, it are the leaves that are represented in different colours, not the flowers. As if someone was making/colouring images of plants he never saw for himself, based on a text that he was sometimes misinterpreting.
  
  I am still interested in the question of the level of abstraction of the drawings, though. 
  
  And I know now what I am going to ask for my Sinterklaas (Belgian Santaclaus): a version of the manuscript without the paint, only the drawings.

• RE: Plant in f7v 'has dots on its leaves'

  -JKP- > 04-12-2016, 04:12 AM

  Lungwort (Pulmonaria) is one of the most distinctive plants that has spots (and it's a medicinal plant represented in many herbals) but there are other plants, like lilies, that also have spots and which are also commonly included in medieval manuscripts.
  
  When Pulmonaria first blooms, the tips of the petals may be lighter, but once they are in full bloom some are pink and some are blue. I have it in my garden. It's a handsome semi-shade plant and grows in the same part of the property as Lunaria (the real one, not the mythical one  ).
  
  
  In medieval times, dots were sometimes also used symbolically to represent other things, like plants with fine hairs on the leaves. Notice how the VMS plant that resembles amaranth also has dots (this time around the edges rather than along the vein) even though amaranth is not distinctive for having dots. It's the colors and and long flower spikes that make amaranth stand out.
  
  So... the dots might mean dots on the plant (it could be something like Pulmonaria) or it might mean hairs or small spiny protrusions (like one finds on young Lactuca plants) or something else.

• RE: Plant in f7v 'has dots on its leaves'

  Karenina > 04-12-2016, 07:49 PM

  Hello JKP, 
  
  I didn't know that dots could stand for 'hairiness' or other characteristics - thank you. 
  
  In the case of f7v, the fact that the plant is hairy would be denoted twice then, since the drawer already put plenty of little hair-like strokes around all the leaves. 
  
  But do you know of other examples in medieval herbals where something is signified by one single dot per leaf?

• RE: Plant in f7v 'has dots on its leaves'

  -JKP- > 05-12-2016, 02:16 AM

  (04-12-2016, 07:49 PM)Karenina Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Hello JKP, 
  
  I didn't know that dots could stand for 'hairiness' or other characteristics - thank you. 
  
  In the case of f7v, the fact that the plant is hairy would be denoted twice then, since the drawer already put plenty of little hair-like strokes around all the leaves. 
  
  But do you know of other examples in medieval herbals where something is signified by one single dot per leaf?

  
  
  Yes, I know plants where the plant is signified by one single dot per leaf and it might in fact be the ID for the plant in the small-plants section that is drawn very distinctly with a single dot on each leaf. The one in the small-plants section might be Butcher's Broom (Ruscus, sometimes called Bruscus in medieval herbals). It's widely included in herbals.
  
  
  But the one with one dot per leaf in the big-plants section I'm pretty sure is something different. I'm familiar with the plant, recognized the general type the first time I saw it, and it has characteristically red and green leaves just as drawn, flowers just as depicted, and gets "rust" spots on the leaves (I don't think it's actually rust, which is a plant disease, although it might be) and looks exactly like the VMS drawing.
  
  
  There is also a plant that grows in Turkey that is similar (but not completely the same) as the big-plant drawing with the single dot that characteristically catches a drop of dew in its leaves (the leaves are slightly cupped) that might well be depicted with a single dot on the leaves. I can't remember the species since it's not a widely distributed plant and I haven't found it in traditional herbals, but the VMS is unique in many ways, so I don't want to discount a plant just because other illustrators didn't include it.

• RE: Plant in f7v 'has dots on its leaves'

  VViews > 04-01-2017, 10:36 AM

  I'm not sure what plant this is supposed to be but there is one dot on each leaf:
  
  
  
  BL You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. 1146, Book of Hours with elements of a Breviary
  Germany, S. (Worms?) c.1475-1485
  f. 267

• RE: Plant in f7v 'has dots on its leaves'

  Davidsch > 04-01-2017, 11:53 AM

  .....VViews, ..and while you're there, look also at the mice with the eh, big bellies.

• RE: Plant in f7v 'has dots on its leaves'

  -JKP- > 04-01-2017, 05:02 PM

  (04-12-2016, 07:49 PM)Karenina Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Hello JKP, 
  
  I didn't know that dots could stand for 'hairiness' or other characteristics - thank you. 
  
  In the case of f7v, the fact that the plant is hairy would be denoted twice then, since the drawer already put plenty of little hair-like strokes around all the leaves. 
  
  But do you know of other examples in medieval herbals where something is signified by one single dot per leaf?

  
  
  I forgot to mention them earlier (I always worry about putting too much information in one post), but Medicago and some of the Polygoniums are also depicted in old herbals with dots on their leaves. In real life, the shape is more like a chevron (and some herbals depict them this way), but some of the rougher drawings use a spot.

• RE: Plant in f7v 'has dots on its leaves'

  Davidsch > 11-01-2017, 01:22 PM

  Hairy Potter Observations
  
  A lot of flowers have dots as well. So we have hairy leafs, hairy roots, and hairy flowers ?
  
  
  So on one hand we have many dots on the herbal drawings,
  but the letter i in the manuscript however lacks the dot always.
  
  On the rosette and cosmo pages, we also see a lot of things, rocks? pipes? with dots.
  Are those hairy rocks? As in bacteria growing on rocks. Strange.
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