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| Latest Threads |
Assumptions baked into th...
Forum: Physical material
Last Post: oshfdk
1 hour ago
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Voynich's anatomy
Forum: Imagery
Last Post: Jorge_Stolfi
1 hour ago
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Palatino 766 pipes, pools...
Forum: Imagery
Last Post: Jorge_Stolfi
2 hours ago
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EVA "qo" in 15th century ...
Forum: Analysis of the text
Last Post: JoeyB
3 hours ago
» Replies: 20
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[Article] What We Actuall...
Forum: Voynich Talk
Last Post: Koen G
4 hours ago
» Replies: 4
» Views: 144
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No text, but a visual cod...
Forum: Theories & Solutions
Last Post: Antonio García Jiménez
4 hours ago
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Why and how the text coul...
Forum: Theories & Solutions
Last Post: JoJo_Jost
6 hours ago
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Voynich Reconsidered
Forum: Theories & Solutions
Last Post: dfs346
6 hours ago
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» Views: 109,591
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[split] Aga Tentakulus' L...
Forum: Analysis of the text
Last Post: nablator
10 hours ago
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» Views: 35,286
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Spencer Coll. MS. 65: an ...
Forum: Imagery
Last Post: Pierre Dumont Himself
Yesterday, 10:38 AM
» Replies: 12
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| [split] Nude figures wearing crowns |
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Posted by: CaryR - 18-02-2021, 02:41 AM - Forum: Imagery
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It's more specific than the broad topic of this thread, but I was wondering about the prevalence of nude figures wearing crowns. Is this something that shows up in particular types of manuscripts? And in what contexts?
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| Counting on stars |
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Posted by: R. Sale - 17-02-2021, 09:45 PM - Forum: Imagery
- Replies (12)
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If it is accepted that VMs Virgo is a combination of Christian and classical influences, then it would fit in with the trends toward the form of ideological syncretism that occurred in the 15th C.
The star in Virgo is Spica, and there's a story behind that too.
In the VMs, Virgo has a star inside its medallion. Which other VMs medallions have a star inside?
Unless I missed something, only two other VMs zodiac medallions have stars inside: Pisces has two stars and Scorpio has one. What is the reason for that?
The primary star in Scorpio is Aldebaran. But what are the two stars in Pisces - from a medieval perspective?
Based on pairing, first Pisces is a pair together. Then the others are a pair apart. Aldebaran is red and Spica is blue.
Many stars around the VMs medallions have been painted. Some are solid gold; others are fainter. All the way to where it's unclear if they have been painted or not. There are groups of stars with yellow centers and a few painted blue. And just one (?) with a couple touches of red.
Do these stars already have a thread?
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| Ave maris stella |
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Posted by: R. Sale - 16-02-2021, 08:01 PM - Forum: Imagery
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Tradition wins out again in the investigation of VMs Virgo. Starting with the suggestion that the VMs image contains certain diverse elements, in particular the crescent moon, that was more commonly associated with representations of the Virgin Mary, rather than the other Virgo representations of classical astrology, it implies that the VMs illustration is something of a combination or fusion of classical and more subtle Christian elements.
But what about the "star on a string" that is found in the VMs Virgo medallion? The moon connection with Mary can be verified in numerous illustrations, but what about the star? Is there one good example of Virgo with a star?
Perhaps, then, the source of the star is not in an illustration. Perhaps the star has a different source - and that source was a song: 'Ave maris stella'
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An oldie, but a goodie, on the C-14 chronology jukebox. Clearly a part of relevant tradition, though not well-represented visually. It greatly strengthens the influence of Christian elements, but only *if* the investigator knows the tune! Not that I can sing, mind you, but there it is. And more importantly, *there it was*. And let's say that in some circles, at least, the connection was obvious - part of the rise of Mariology. How can the combined image be used in VMs Virgo and still be disguised? Would the VMs artist have tied stars to every nymph in the whole VMs Zodiac sequence just to disguise this connection? How's that song go again?
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| Pardis Motiee, "First Page of Voynich Manuscript: The Unheard Story" (LingBuzz) |
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Posted by: Stephen Carlson - 15-02-2021, 12:24 AM - Forum: News
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LingBuzz has a new preprint on the VM by Pardis Motiee: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view..
Here is the abstract:
Quote:The Voynich manuscript is an old illustrated book, hand-written in an unknown writing system. Even though it is studied by many, the book still closed its secrets. The drawings suggest that the manuscript is an herbal book and it may contain valuable information thus decoding it may increase human knowledge. This study has presented, a decipherment for Voynich manuscript and examines if it conveys any meanings. It states that, Voynich is written in codes and in fact there are hidden text with meanings in a natural language. The final results demonstrated the existence of words in sentence structure. Furthermore, it gives an insight into the first lines, which is a description of an itinerary like story; the mysterious book speaks of a person named Homer Jattari who passes a long distance from Pars to Parete, in search of amazing attars. The finding will prove the book to be a code and not a hoax.
The article contends that the VM can be decoded into a form of Persian, which I am not able to evaluate.
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| Greatest unexpected clues about VMS? |
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Posted by: Pythagoras - 13-02-2021, 06:16 AM - Forum: Voynich Talk
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What are the clues/hints/part of the VMS that struck you as completely unexpected?
Perhaps things that are even against what youd expect to find in the time period or against your own preconceptions about the VMS?
Or maybe they coincide with your ideas but this clue was still unexpected?
My greatest unexpected hint is in the middle of the book, hidden under plane sight.
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| [split] Palaeography of f116v |
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Posted by: Aga Tentakulus - 12-02-2021, 06:27 AM - Forum: Marginalia
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I wanted to ask, have the linguists ever provided a description or a reasonable explanation about the texts on page 116? I would like to read about it.
Especially the Latin part. I understand the German part myself.
The meaning and translation should not be a problem for a linguist. And while he's at it, he could also contribute something about the origin.
That shouldn't be a problem, after all, it's your profession.
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| Thread for all discussion about "genuine/meaningless/fake" etc |
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Posted by: ReneZ - 11-02-2021, 12:31 PM - Forum: Voynich Talk
- Replies (57)
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EDIT KG: this thread was split from here: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
As I wrote in another thread, I don't think it is a good idea to place people in camps like "believing the text is meaningful" and the opposite. This is always too simplistic, and it provides a tendency toward ad hominem argumentation.
At the very least, there will always be a 'neutral camp'. There are many people (myself included) who are still waiting for more evidence before being willing to make up their minds either way. Yet again, inside this 'camp', people may still have a tendency to prefer one way or the other.
I have not seen any conclusive evidence for either viewpoint. Bowern and Lindemann state their opinions, and so do Timm and Schinner on the other side. I cannot see much of a difference between the level of confidence between the two cases, nor on the strength of the evidence to support this confidence. In general, I would say that Bowern and Lindemann phrase their statement slightly more carefully.
The auto-copy theory does not equate with meaningless text. As I have made very clear in the past, I cannot see how the Voynich MS text can be the result of such a process. However, it can still be a meaningless text.
Most importantly, for me, is that it is not such a black-and-white question at all. I don't agree with the statement: "There exist exactly two possibilities: either the Voynich Manuscript contains linguistically meaningful information, or not."
It is not difficult to imagine how the text could be meaningful, with some amount of meaningless padding. I don't even want to begin guessing what could be possible ratios between the two.
There are clear suggestions of meaningful content and there are clear suggestions of meaningless behaviour in the MS. The "one theory that explains it all" is still missing.
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| Review on "The Linguistics of the Voynich Manuscript" |
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Posted by: Torsten - 11-02-2021, 01:19 AM - Forum: News
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There is an unpublished paper: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
by Torsten Timm and Dr. Andreas Schinner
In this paper we address severe deficiencies of a recent publication by Claire L. Bowern and Luke Lindemann on You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. [Annual Review of Linguistics 2021 (7): 285-308].
Quote:During the last years, research on the Voynich Manuscript, a (most likely) medieval codex written in unique "cipher" script, has drifted into a problematic direction. Even articles in peer-reviewed academic journals sometimes neglect the basic principles of scientific methodology. A recent publication appears symptomatic for this questionable development.
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| Scribes of the Voynich Manuscript |
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Posted by: lurker - 06-02-2021, 01:23 PM - Forum: News
- Replies (38)
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Scribes of the Voynich Manuscript
Interview with Dr. Lisa Fagin Davis
There is a You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. and also a You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view..
Abstract:
Quote:Our conversation focuses on the Voynich Manuscript, or Yale University, Beinecke Rare Book
and Manuscript Library, MS 408. This famously arcane manuscript remains undeciphered, or
what Dr. Davis calls an "irresistible mystery." But with the help of the DigiPal resource, Dr. Davis
has been able to draw conclusions about the scribes involved, without needing to read the text.
We also discuss the future of medieval studies in the digital age, including the most exciting
tools available for scholarship and public engagement.
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