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| What are the characteristics of Labelese? |
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Posted by: VViews - 25-07-2019, 03:52 PM - Forum: Analysis of the text
- Replies (94)
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Hi everyone,
I'm interested in establishing a list of what the characteristics of the putative "Labelese" are.
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.by Nick lists the following for the zodiac section:
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* a disproportionately large number of zodiac labels start with EVA ‘ot’ or ‘ok’.
* words starting EVA ‘yk-‘ are also more common in zodiac labels than elsewhere
* most (but not all) zodiac labels are surprisingly short.
* many – despite their short length – terminate with EVA ‘-y’.
* a good number of zodiac labels occur multiple times.
* almost no zodiac labels start with EVA ‘qo-‘
* in many places, the zodiac labels exhibit a particularly strong ‘paired’ structure (e.g. on the Pisces f70v2 page, otolal = ot-ol-al, otaral, otalar, otalam, dolaram, okaram, etc), far more strongly than elsewhere"
Can this list be considered as a good description of the characteristics of Labelese in general? Are there more to add to the list?
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| Work in progress, and a question |
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Posted by: ReneZ - 23-07-2019, 02:04 PM - Forum: Voynich Talk
- Replies (22)
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I finally found some time to do something I've been thinking of for a long time.
It is still work in progress, but the first results, while not yet satisfactory to me, are at least encouraging.
The following is the result of mostly, but not entirely, automatic processing. The manual part can still be reduced a lot, which I will need to do if I want to apply this to a larger number of pages.
So here goes.
Imagine one has a sheet of blank vellum:
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Then imagine one draws a plant on it....
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and then adds some text
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and paints it with lots of green and some other colours
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the same is done to the other side
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and finally it is bound in a book.
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I'm still working on important improvements, but I also have a question.
Who has some good advice for combining JPEG's into a movie (mpeg , mp4, what have you)?
Many thanks in advance!
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| Baran Bo Odar |
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Posted by: Davidsch - 22-07-2019, 12:31 PM - Forum: Voynich Talk
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The director of the series DARK is named Baran bo Odar.
Question to you, because I can not find it on the Internet:
Q:
In what language does "odar" occur and what does it mean?
Bonus Q:
In what language is the word for a type of doctor, as he states, similar to "odar"?
For my full article here: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
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| VMs (f80v) critter identified |
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Posted by: R. Sale - 16-07-2019, 11:12 PM - Forum: Imagery
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The “Apocalypse of S Jean” aka BNF Fr. 13096 is dated to 1313.
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A folio from this manuscript was recently posted in J.K. Petersen’s blog discussing the possibility that the elusive VMs (f80v) critter was related to medieval images of the Agnus Dei.
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In a typical representation, the Lamb of God usually supports a cross and/or flag. Obviously the VMs critter does neither and the same is true in the Apocalypse illustration. There we see a lamb on an altar. It is enclosed in a vesical piscis and framed by a cloud-band, which mark its divinity. And below this, if one looks closely, there are a number of small red markings, surely intended to represent the Blood of the Lamb. After all, it is an apocalypse.
Going beyond the specific appearance of the Apocalypse image, there is a simple structure that is basic to this part of the illustration. The structure is a sequence of three parts: the lamb, the cosmic boundary, and the droplets. Knowing this structure, the VMs critter is easily unmasked and clearly identified. Granted that the critter by itself has not been that easy to discover. Various possibilities, including a sheep, have been suggested. The identification is based on the complete structure, not on the appearance.
The recovery of heraldic terminology informs a direct etymological connection between ‘gewolkt’ lines and Wolkenbands. The same substitution of a nebuly line for a cloud-band is seen in the VMs cosmos. While the VMs artist’s best representation of a scallop-shell cloud-band is found in the Central Rosette. And, of course, the nature of the VMs droplets remains ambiguous, but at least they exist as potential droplets, making the same three-part structure as the Apocalypse illustration. And in some sense, it really doesn’t matter how poorly, or how diversely, or how ambiguously the individual parts of the structure are represented, as long as the structure is maintained, and there is some way for the parts to be properly interpreted, despite their appearance, then these are examples of the same structure.
As a lamb or sheep, the form of the VMs critter has been compared with that of the ram seen in the image of the Order of the Golden Fleece, begun by Philip the Good in Burgundy in 1429. Apparently the “Apocalypse of S Jean” was in the library of Philip the Good as well. Speculation must allow that someone of that era could have known the structure of the apocalypse image and substituted a reversed representation of the Burgundian fleece in place of the lamb while retaining the other parts. Not only that, if this occurred in the 1430s, it is still within the parchment dates.
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| 2019 Symposium on Cryptologic History |
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Posted by: doranchak - 15-07-2019, 09:18 PM - Forum: News
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The program for this conference has been released:
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There is one Voynich talk:
Quote:Dr. Gregor Damschen - A Fibonacci-Based Lunisolar Calendar in the Voynich Manuscript (Beinecke MS 408, f68r3)
Folio 68r3 of the Voynich Manuscript (Beinecke MS 408) has meaningful content. The numbers of stars of the circle image encode a Fibonacci-based formula which allows to synchronize synodic lunar months and tropical sun years. This presentation will present this explanation in detail, thus proving the manuscript itself is not a hoax.
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| Tim King's et al. translation |
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Posted by: Gioynich - 10-07-2019, 10:47 PM - Forum: News
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Just found this new paper: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
proposing that the Voynich is written in a Vulgar Latin dialect, likely affected by a contemporary Italian dialect.
I haven't had much time to read it thoroughly, but it's one of the first papers I see with a clear methodology and translations that make some sense.
Thoughts?
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| [split] On the validation of Theories |
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Posted by: davidjackson - 02-07-2019, 10:07 AM - Forum: Voynich Talk
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The problem, if I may interject into this little discussion, is that whilst there are several interesting probable theories out there, there aren't any ways of proving these theories.
Torsten's theory is fascinating, but unprovable. So is Rugg's, realistically. There are a half dozen more out there. Same for the "it's real" theory, probable but no more provable than Torsten's. Or even SantaColumna's hoax theory.
I'm afraid that picking a camp amongst any of these theories is like Brexit. Ultimately, nobody knows and two "experts" can both hold diametrically opposing views - and both can be right (for a given value of "right"). You just choose the one that "feels right" to you and then you become emotionally involved.
So really, the only option is to be theory agnostic and evaluate all of them with an open mind. Personally, I'm putting all the theories that pass critical evaluation to one side in the hope that something pops up in the future that lends weight to one or the other.
So let's not get too emotionally involved in any theory. At the end of the day, it's all supposed to be a fun intellectual game. Or, in the words of the immortal Dilbert:
![[Image: 2005-02-17voting.gif]](https://shadowdemocracy.files.wordpress.com/2007/11/2005-02-17voting.gif)
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| [split] (lack of) word groups |
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Posted by: -JKP- - 01-07-2019, 12:07 PM - Forum: Analysis of the text
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[Edit by Koen: I split this thread for the discussion of a statement by Gordon Rugg]
I actually agree with some of the statements in the article, even though Rugg and I have different perspectives on the VMS, but this statement:
"Here’s one example. All real languages have regularities in word order. In English, ‘I drink coffee’ is a grammatically accurate sentence but ‘coffee drink I’ isn’t. But the words in the Voynich Manuscript You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. in their order. That reason alone is enough to eliminate all known languages from being candidates..."
... is a rather context-dependent statement. If the VMS is a simple substitution cipher, then maybe this kind of generalization can be made, but I'm pretty sure it isn't.
It isn't even necessarily a cipher.
Even if it is a cipher, it doesn't take much manipulation to obscure underlying sentence structure, and thus the grammar (if there is any).
Plus, it's not necessarily true that there are no regularities in the word order. There are line patterns and paragraph patterns. This doesn't necessarily mean Voynichese is natural language, but it does mean there are regularities of certain kinds throughout the text. It's not random.
So I think we have to be careful about statements like this until we have a better understanding of VMS text.
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| [Merged] Stars identified |
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Posted by: Monica Yokubinas - 27-06-2019, 05:01 PM - Forum: Astronomy
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These are the stars that i have identified so far on You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
Some of these translations coincide with some very old names for the stars in the constellations. I had to reverse the image so it would match a current star chart that i have.
VM translation = Ahyan or Ain in Hebrew and Arabic and means eye. Ain was the name of the star Epsilon Tauri, the eye of the bull Taurus.
VM translation = Ryaz or Ra’as is the ancient name for Al-Ghul/Algol or Beta Persei the Demon Star.
VM translation = ayang = Al-Janah or the wing is Epsilon Cygni.
VM translation = Achayayaz or Mirzan Al-Jawza, is Sirius. Ach can mean firepot or brother.
VM translation aurig or Auriga is clearly translated as it is.
There one for the white spot of Orion is in the wrong place and I am trying to figure it out. Could be they misused a name for a different part of the constellation. I'll update when complete.
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