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Welcome, Guest You have to register before you can post on our site. Username/Email:    Password    Remember me Search Forums (Advanced Search) Online Users There are currently 646 online users. » 4 Member(s) | 637 Guest(s) Applebot, Baidu, Bing, Google, Yandex, BessAgritianin, Lissu, Oocephalus Latest Threads Water, earth and air Forum: Voynich Talk Last Post: R. Sale 1 hour ago » Replies: 60 » Views: 11,710 Huth's reading of f116v: ... Forum: Marginalia Last Post: oeesordy 3 hours ago » Replies: 7 » Views: 139 The claimed Voynich page Forum: Imagery Last Post: Fabrizio Salani 7 hours ago » Replies: 87 » Views: 13,612 The Book Switch Theory Forum: Theories & Solutions Last Post: ReneZ 7 hours ago » Replies: 136 » Views: 6,956 Voynich Zoom CFP Forum: News Last Post: proto57 11 hours ago » Replies: 39 » Views: 3,320 Can we go further? Forum: Analysis of the text Last Post: Battler Yesterday, 11:46 AM » Replies: 23 » Views: 879 No text, but a visual cod... Forum: Theories & Solutions Last Post: Antonio García Jiménez Yesterday, 10:31 AM » Replies: 1,688 » Views: 1,037,874 The origin of Fabrizio Sa... Forum: Imagery Last Post: Fabrizio Salani Yesterday, 09:40 AM » Replies: 4 » Views: 258 f17r multispectral images Forum: Marginalia Last Post: Bernd Yesterday, 09:00 AM » Replies: 114 » Views: 44,268 Why and how the text coul... Forum: Theories & Solutions Last Post: JoJo_Jost Yesterday, 08:07 AM » Replies: 87 » Views: 8,190

Voynich Fraud/Hoax? Posted by: Pythagoras - 06-07-2021, 12:01 PM - Forum: Voynich Talk - Replies (14) What is the best argument that the VMS is a fraud/hoax? (to give the devil his due so to speak)   Is the Voynich illegible? Posted by: Mark Knowles - 06-07-2021, 01:37 AM - Forum: Voynich Talk - Replies (24) I find it very difficult to read the faded smudged and often faint text. How can we possibly decipher the text of the Voynich when it is so hard to read in the first place? Now in an ideal world we would have access to even higher resolution scans of the manuscript which might make it easier to determine what is written. However it seems very unlikely that there will be significantly higher resolution scans available any time soon. Frankly scans going down to a molecular level of resolution would not seem completely ridiculous. Determining the precise pen motion corresponding to the blotchy characters is hard at the moment.   latin on last page Posted by: Pythagoras - 03-07-2021, 12:09 PM - Forum: Analysis of the text - Replies (1) im sure there was a thread here about the latin on the last page. what did everyone conclude it says? askng for my latino friend   Plant of folio37r Posted by: Pardis Motiee - 29-06-2021, 07:24 PM - Forum: Imagery - Replies (2) Hi. Today I was looking at voynich plants and I had the mood of drawing, now it seems more realistic:   Heraldic Symbolism in the VMs Posted by: R. Sale - 28-06-2021, 10:20 PM - Forum: Voynich Talk - No Replies I would like to propose a list of examples where heraldry is used in the VMs. * The nebuly line as found in the VMs cosmos. A nebuly line can be a cloud band. A cloud band can be a cosmic boundary.     Heraldry provides the name (etymology), definition and structure of the nebuly line. * Heraldic ordinaries, sub-ordinaries, and furs placed as tub patterns on VMs Pisces and Aries pages.     Various examples. * Red hats and blue stripes. Two for one. Both are heraldic and the combination is historically significant. * Red, white and green hats of the Zodiac nymphs match with the religious use in ecclesiastical heraldry. * On the White Aries page, both of the relevant characters, nymphs, are found in the heraldically favored upper right quadrant of the illustration - from the heraldic perspective - from behind the shield. * An obscure heraldic fur, carefully placed on the two pages immediately preceding White Aries, corresponding in both quadrant and in sphere with the two blue-striped patterns on White Aries, then sets up the possibility for a religious and historical, heraldic canting, if and only if the 'proper', historical and traditional name and description can be recovered for each. * Melusine isn't exactly heraldic, but she was considered ancestral, and that's close. * The Golden Fleece is honorific - a symbol of royal exclusivity - more similar to heraldry that to astronomy or alchemy for sure. Not only do these examples demonstrate the value of the 'proper' interpretation of heraldic symbolism. In combination with with other investigations (the cosmos) and other evidence (C-14), the set of historical correlations starts to take its own form. Additionally, the manner in which these and other examples have been presented reveals something about the source. There is a sophistication, a level of depiction that is more than subtle. On White Aries it is duplicitous. There are two choices. These examples demonstrate the importance of heraldic interpretation. What other area of investigation can say as much?   Rosettes foldout: cardinal directions? Posted by: Koen G - 28-06-2021, 08:36 PM - Forum: Imagery - Replies (66) This thread is for specifically discussing the cardinal directions in the rosettes foldout.  Among those people who believe the cardinal directions are indicated, there seems to be an agreement that they are on the diagonals, so in the corners (correct me if I'm wrong). Since there are four smaller items in the corners, it is possible that these indicate the directions. Two opposite items are suns, which probably indicate east and west, since this is where the sun rises and sets, and the sun does not appear in the north. These ideas have been around for a while (I've seen an older forum discussion between Diane and Searcher who agreed on the directions) and they seem sensible to me. So the following would - again, correct me if I'm wrong - not be extremely controversial:     Both Searcher and Diane placed north at the top right though, which is where I disagree. There are forms of the sky in many if not all the rosettes, so the mere presence of a sky cannot be an indication of north. The spiral, too, would be a strange way of representing the north pole, since the heavens turn like a wheel, they don't spiral inward (unless you fancy a black hole or something). A lobed shape in the sky (as seen in the bottom left rosette) to represent the celestial pole is more common than a spiral. [font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Men observing the stars, from Bartholomaeus Anglicus' De Proprietatibus rerum, Italy (Mantua), c. 1300-1310, You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view., f. 108v[/font] [font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]As far as I know, the emblem of this rosette is not yet understood, but it seems to point towards the general sphere of constellations/navigation. Inside is something like a constellation symbol, and the circle has eight subdivisions like a compass rose.[/font] [font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]     [/font] [font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Therefore I would say this is north, and continuing clockwise east, south and west.[/font]   The Rosettes in Biblical mythological interpretation Posted by: Searcher - 27-06-2021, 11:50 AM - Forum: Imagery - Replies (20) I suggest to put here any ideas about Biblical mythological explanation of the rosettes: separate rosettes or the whole scheme. I have only my phone today, so only a prologue for now.   In the hypothesis that the VM is a medical compendium, what is each section? Posted by: Koen G - 21-06-2021, 09:42 PM - Forum: Imagery - Replies (30) In the scenario where the VM is (or pretends to be) a medical compendium, what is each section's function? At both ends of the known history of humanity's interpretation of the manuscript, from B(aresch) to Z(andbergen), medicine in the broadest sense of the word plays an important role. So let us assume for this thread that the VM is indeed, or at least explicitly drew inspiration from, a collection of imagery from the medical sphere. Then what is each section supposed to represent at first glance?  Large plants, this seems obvious: a herbal manuscript. Astro diagrams: I'm not sure, probably medical astrology? Other forum members must know more about this. Zodiac section: I have seen various ideas here; something related to women's health, or a calendar of good and bad days to take a bath? Q13a: f77 is the one where people see internal organs. But what about folios 76, 77, 79, 80, 82, 83? I have no idea. Q13b: therapeutic bathing (like Balneis) Three 4-way diagrams on rosettes recto: I don' know. Rosettes: I don't know, what could this be in a medical context? Or should we broaden the scope and include things like mappa mundi? But even then the 9-circle layout is weird, isn't it? Small plants: pharmaceutical jars and ingredients. Q20: this isn't imagery, but it seems structured like recipes (either for remedies or for food). Again, this is about the general impression, without getting lost in details. What is the whole section supposed to look like?   Some comments upon the construction of the circles of the Rosettes Posted by: davidjackson - 18-06-2021, 08:45 PM - Forum: Imagery - Replies (5) Although it has always been "known" that the scribe(s) used mechanical aids to draw the circles in the VM, I thought I'd spend some time with a pair of compasses to prove this, at least on the Rosettes page. They have all been drawn with a pair of compasses. In some cases the centre of the circle is a prominent feature of the imagery; in other cases it is not. In some cases the circle is properly drawn, in others the scribe has messed it up a bit. I go through the circles one by one, from top left to bottom right. In all cases I have measured the inner circle of the line of text.  Top left: This is 9.3 cm wide. There is no real centre to the image. Top middle: This is 9.3cm wide. The centre of the image is the centre of the circle. Top right: This is 9.3cm wide. The centre of the image is slightly off centre to the circle. Middle left: This circle has been messed up. The scribe has hit the fold of the parchment and had to recentre his pair of compasses. The width is aprox 9.3cm, but if you look the top and bottom halves of the circle do not quite match at the fold. The centre of the circle is aprox the centre of the image. Middle right: The same thing has happened here - the circle is not perfect where the compasses have hit the fold and been recentered. The image is 9.2 cm wide. Bottom left: This circle is 9.5cm wide. The centre of the circle is not the centre of the image; instead it is below it:     Bottom middle: The circle is 9.5cm wide. The centre of the image corresponds with the centre of the circle. Bottom right: This circle is 9.6cm. The centre of the image does not correspond with the centre of the circle:     The "clock" in the bottom left is mechanically drawn on the inside circle, rather badly. I imagine it was difficult to do such a small circle with the pair of compasses available to the scribe. The outer circle, however, appears to have been drawn by hand afterwards. Observations: - The problems experienced by the two circles of the middle row suggest that the parchment was folded before the imagery was inked, because the compasses have hit the fold and had to be realigned. -The circles are all roughly the same sizes, suggesting that the scribe drew the circles in sequence and before inking in the details. The first four are the same size; the middle right is the smallest. The following two are the same size, with the final one being slightly bigger. If this is correct, then it means there was an overall plan, and probably a template for this drawing. - Sometimes the centre of the circle is a feature of the image - in other cases it is ignored.   Observations on q Posted by: cecilp - 18-06-2021, 01:10 AM - Forum: Analysis of the text - Replies (2) q is a bit of weird character, because it almost always appears at the beginning of words, followed by o. But the cases where q isn’t followed by o are even more interesting, because they seem to follow strict rules, not random as you’d expect from mistakes or outliers. I decided to look at q’s occurrences to see what the rules might be.  qo: 5230 instances  qf: 1 instance, followed by o (q links to o, possibly like a bench) qk: 19 instances, some might be errors, they’re followed by o (8), e (6) or c (3), often with the q extending to the k or the letter after qp: 2 instances, both seem to be transcription mistakes  qt: 3 instances, all probably errors qe: 66 instances, q often connects to the top of the e similarly to h qc: 23 instances, at least some are mistakes    qch: 4 instances, all seem to be errors     qckh: 9    qcph: 2     qcth: 8 Everything else is has no instances.  From this we can make a few conclusions: q appears before o or e, sometimes with k or f in between, or before the benched gallows ckh, cth or cph.  This implies to me a few things: q affixes itself to certain word initial sounds, likely vowels. So, word initial o, e and benched gallows are vowels, or at least they sometimes start with a vowel sound. Word initial y is never a vowel or at least does not start with a vowel sound. k might be silent in some cases. Benched gallows are different from ch, and are composites beginning with e. Any of these conclusions could be wrong, but they are the initial impressions I get from this.  If it hasn’t already been done, a look into whether or not qe words have q-less equivalents might yield interesting results.  I got all the numbers from voynichese.com First Previous Next Last