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Welcome, Guest You have to register before you can post on our site. Username/Email:    Password    Remember me Search Forums (Advanced Search) Online Users There are currently 820 online users. » 5 Member(s) | 810 Guest(s) Applebot, Baidu, Bing, Google, Yandex, Aga Tentakulus, Phoenix887, rikforto Latest Threads Double lobster Forum: Imagery Last Post: rikforto 11 minutes ago » Replies: 24 » Views: 2,835 About the construction of... Forum: Analysis of the text Last Post: Jorge_Stolfi 51 minutes ago » Replies: 42 » Views: 2,178 No text, but a visual cod... Forum: Theories & Solutions Last Post: Linda 1 hour ago » Replies: 1,715 » Views: 1,112,254 Some Voynichy crowns Forum: Imagery Last Post: Bluetoes101 3 hours ago » Replies: 16 » Views: 1,614 Month names collection / ... Forum: Marginalia Last Post: Koen G 6 hours ago » Replies: 173 » Views: 40,165 The first glyph of every ... Forum: Analysis of the text Last Post: nablator 6 hours ago » Replies: 17 » Views: 726 Why and how the text coul... Forum: Theories & Solutions Last Post: JoJo_Jost 9 hours ago » Replies: 168 » Views: 17,136 Ruby's Greek Thread Forum: Theories & Solutions Last Post: Ruby Novacna Yesterday, 03:51 PM » Replies: 220 » Views: 75,411 Unknown alphabet - exhibi... Forum: News Last Post: sivbugge Yesterday, 10:07 AM » Replies: 14 » Views: 875 Conlang, Glossolalia, dai... Forum: Theories & Solutions Last Post: oeesordy Yesterday, 09:06 AM » Replies: 43 » Views: 2,392

Why is the Rosettes page much larger than any other page? Posted by: Mark Knowles - 03-02-2022, 03:07 PM - Forum: Voynich Talk - Replies (9) The Rosettes page takes up 6 sides of the manuscript. There are other foldouts in the manuscript, but each side of those is like a separate page, so the Rosettes features by far and away the largest single image. A page this size is more costly than 6 individual sheets, because it requires a larger piece of vellum. One could ask why the author(s) needed such a large sheet for the rosettes drawing, could the drawing fit on a smaller sheet without loss of detail? Was the topic particularly important that it merited a large sheet? Presumably the large sheet was purchased specifically for the purpose of the Rosettes drawing.   Rosettes and Revelations Pt.1: The Holy City - Koen Gheuens and Cary Rapaport Posted by: Koen G - 30-01-2022, 07:48 PM - Forum: Imagery - Replies (147) When Cary and I posted our grand overview of possible Christian themes in the Voynich images, a common (and justified) complaint was that the post was too long. Therefore, we decided to treat each subject separately, and to start with the Rosettes foldout. What I thought would be a quick rewrite, ended up in a complete revision that took us half a year. We soon realized that this post about the Rosettes would be too long as well, and decided to chop it up into smaller, bite-size chunks. The advantage of this is that the post is compact and limited in scope, easier to digest. The disadvantage is that we can only present a part of our evidence at the time. But I think it is better like this. Part one is online now. The second part is almost finished and will be published next week.  The first piece of the puzzle focuses entirely on the "walls" connecting the outer circles: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view..   Finding the icons Posted by: R. Sale - 24-01-2022, 09:40 PM - Forum: Voynich Talk - No Replies Finding the icons is problematic in the VMs.  Identifying the nature of icons is difficult. Defined as an image, figure, representation or picture. This definition lacks the essential *star* quality that makes an icon an icon. Though it may not be easy to find icons, it is possible to find things that were iconic relevant to the C-14 dates. Where something iconic is something that goes without saying.  Certain understandings and interpretations that need no explanation because they were well known at the time VMs creation. And even though quite famous at the time, have gotten lost in the cascade of historical events. The VMs cosmos is iconic. The understanding goes without saying, but the interpretation is a long and complex review of medieval representations. concluding with a focus of BNF Fr. 565 and Harley 334. The Golden Fleece was certainly iconic. Does it occur, as has been suggested, in the VMs? Not just once, but twice? Discovered despite ambiguous representation. Confirmed by the existence of dual representation, pairing. And confirmed by association with other historical icons, as represented in the illustrations, either Melusine or the Agnus Dei icon. One icon confirms the other. Heraldry is iconic. Red hats and blue stripes were iconic. The cardinal's red galero was traditional. The armorial insignia was historical. The combination was a unique historical event. Swallowtail merlons are iconic.  The ring and the cross were iconic to Saint Colette of Corbie. The double rainbow would have been iconic for La Sainte Hostie de Dijon. There were crowds in the street to validate the popular significance of such icons. So, the icons exist in the VMs illustrations, it's up to the investigator to find them. Top right f1r Posted by: ddskbnbn - 21-01-2022, 03:40 PM - Forum: Analysis of the text - Replies (7) Hello all, Has anyone ever made anything of these little faded things on f1r? I've seen a lot of discussion about the red things, but not about these. Looks like an arabic alif, the word pig and half a pitchfork, so it must be important.        "minims" and "word endings" Posted by: Ranceps - 10-01-2022, 04:39 PM - Forum: Analysis of the text - Replies (10) For my own research, I have decided to make my own transcription (also rewriting the whole MS, including drawings, by using my own Voynich font). After a few pages, I have noticed that some minims are kinda weird... For me it looks like the following: EVA- n ( n), might just be an EVA-i with a ligature- therefore making a word daiin not daiin, but transcribed to daw/v/... instead regarding the count of i's. EVA- s ( s), might as well be just an EVA-e with a ligature or a way to write c'h without the h. EVA- r ( r) , when following the stroke also looks to me like EVA-i with an apostrophe = I' and, EVA- c'h ( c'h ) is in almost every case I found written from right to left. What are you thoughts on this? Wouldn't using a wrong transcription harm the results of for example frequency analysis making it unreliable? How do you cope with these "symptoms"?   Historic cipher mapping Posted by: R. Sale - 07-01-2022, 08:14 PM - Forum: Voynich Talk - Replies (28) The idea would be to create a database and mapping for early ciphers, similar to the mapping of merlons. Simple entries of date, location and cipher methodology would be sufficient, with substitution (simple vs. complex) most common. But there is also a potential of alternate methods being used, along with when and where that may have been - within relevant parameters.   Spatial Spread And Conditional Character Entropy Reduction Posted by: Anton - 03-01-2022, 05:17 PM - Forum: News - Replies (13) Occasionally I got some interesting ideas before the New Year and I took time to systematize them to a certain extent in a You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.. There's a reasonable statement that if something does not behave like a flow of language then perhaps it is not a flow of language. Now, there's a question of how exactly to read it. Those who explore the "hoax" hypothesis judge that Voynichese is not a flow of language. I think that maybe Voynichese is not a flow of language instead. I have some further ideas which it would be exciting to develop, but in terms of blog posting I wanted to pause at some point, lest it takes months or years. Comments and suggestions most welcome. Is nymphs gender relevant? Posted by: R. Sale - 30-12-2021, 12:49 AM - Forum: Imagery - Replies (4) From a question, recently posed in the "Of-Topic" thread, this seems to be very much on a relevant topic. "What if the nymphs gender doesn’t really matter in the manuscript?" It has been suggested, whether as 'stella' or 'anima', that the multitude of VMs nymphs are the personifications of stars or spirits of whatever type might be preferred.  This is a perfectly reasonable interpretation of some normal text or set of illustrations. That is a part of what the VMs attempts to project. That is not exactly what the VMs is. When the nymphs are examined individually, it opens up a whole host of problems. In European languages that have common nouns with assigned gender, both star and spirit are generally feminine. Therefore, they are ideologically feminine, and therefore, they are pictorially feminine. If they are what they are expected to be, does their gender really matter? It is only where gender differs from the expectation, that gender should matter. While there are numerous VMs nymphs that almost match this expectation, there are a notable number of exceptions. Exceptions which clearly contradict the expectations as generally presented. In other words, there are a number of intentionally ambiguous and even potentially masculine figures included in the VMs Zodiac sequence. Why was this variety of nonstandard figures represented by the VMs artist?  Is gender relevant? Perhaps just in specific cases of historical (1), literary (2) and mythological (3) examples. However, there is also the problem of the dark ink that has frequently been applied to the VMs nymphs to emphasize their breasts. This would indicate that the identification of gender was important. But, to what purpose? Is it a distraction or an attraction? Are the nude, female nymphs of the VMs intended to disguise the 'others' hidden in their midst? Or are they enhanced to promote the investigation and discovery of hidden characters otherwise known to be relevant to European, medieval society. (1) The Fieschi popes on VMs White Aries (2) Lady Bertilak on VMs White Aries (Wife of the Green Knight) (3) Castor and Pollux on VMs Gemini   The chicken and the ink Posted by: bi3mw - 26-12-2021, 10:05 PM - Forum: Physical material - Replies (11) In a thread about Biocodicology, the following idea occurred to me: The Mc Crone Institute studied the ink in the VMS in 2009. It was found that Glair (eggwhite) was used for clear or the color white. It was used in the headdress of bather on folio 78r ( clear, not white ) and a face on folio 70v ( see table in the report ). Thus, inks containing protein were used which are hardly contaminated, i.e. they were only mixed with calcium carbonate but not processed in any other way (in contrast to the parchment). Samples of these inks could help determine the origin of the chicken and thus the ink itself if the ovalbumin (OVA) is sufficient to determine the exact species ( that would be the first and most important question, does it differ from sub species to sub species ?). The protein sequence of chicken ovalbumin was fully elucidated in 1981 [2]. The Red junglefowl ( gallus gallus ) is the ancestor of all domestic chickens existing today ( Wikipedia ). The variations in late medieval times were locally different. The DNA of chicken bones from archaeological excavations could be used for comparison. These are found worldwide ( for example also in my neighboring town ) in large numbers. From the 15th century onwards breeding of chickens has been demonstrably started, which facilitates the differentiation according to local sites. Quote:Benecke (1994: 370-372)[1] proves that chickens definitely became larger as well as more different in shape and color from the late Middle Ages on. From about the 15th century, there are first indications of incipient breeding. In the Middle Ages, the animals can be divided according to the construction of the skeleton into small chickens similar to today's bantams and heavier chickens such as Leghorn or Italian. Chicken breeds or different types of chickens that emerged in the late Middle Ages are the origin of some breeds still living today .... [1] Benecke, N. Der Mensch und seine Haustiere, Theiss, 1994 [2] A. D. Nisbet, R. H. Saundry u. a.: The complete amino-acid sequence of hen ovalbumin. In: European Journal of Biochemistry / FEBS. Band 115, Nummer 2, April 1981, S. 335–345, doi:10.1111/j.1432-1033.1981.tb05243.x (free Fulltext). PMID 7016535. My question now is whether this idea is plausible and considered feasible or ( justified ) why not. You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.   Gemini nymphs after 6 Posted by: R. Sale - 24-12-2021, 08:09 PM - Forum: Imagery - Replies (2) VMs Gemini has some interesting 'nymphs' between 6 o'clock and 9 o'clock in the outer ring. Several of these characters are clothed and ostensibly male. Not the more typical VMs nymph. Also, for some, the style of clothing appears interesting, as it looks like a tunic. You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. The term 'tunic' turns up in a number of ninja threads that seem to be concerned with the primary male characters of Gemini and Sagittarius inside the respective medallions. I haven't found where these secondary characters have been brought into the discussion. Any guidance appreciated. Furthermore, in relation to recent discussions, there is the possibility that these characters fit into the myth of Castor and Pollux, leading up to their catasterism. Perhaps this has been considered previously? First Previous Next Last