The Voynich Ninja

Hi folks,

I believe I'm on to something which is a serious cipher, but it's hard to tackle.  The text cipher which I believe is Welsh Numerology needs your help.  I'm uploading the cipher here and a present picture of what I have.  I just found gall and rhubarb from Edith Sherwood's site and along with Craf the numerology is holding up.  The problem is if the whole Voynich is in Welsh then we only have the word number for welsh words and so decoding using this method is a nightmare.  We need to find 8 more Voynich Glyph's to complete the project.  Edith Sherwood's site is the best for identification of herbs.    Please share in this endeavor with me.

Numerology
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English to Welsh Dictionary
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Voynich Numerology Welsh Language

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Sherwood's Site
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Voynich Gardens
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Do I understand this correctly: you convert each Voynich word to a single number, and then find a plaintext Welsh word that has the same number and call it a match? If so, the scheme seems almost completely subjective, thus I must be missing something?

(20-09-2016, 09:50 PM)julian Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Do I understand this correctly: you convert each Voynich word to a single number, and then find a plaintext Welsh word that has the same number and call it a match? If so, the scheme seems almost completely subjective, thus I must be missing something?

Julian, I cannot wrap my head around it either, but it's not so mysterious to me since I came up with it I guess! However, to try and put %'s on what's subjective or objective for my method is mind boggling to be sure.  But I do have some semblance of logic with this additional post for planet placement for the signs for March 13, 1408. This Astrology Wheel follows objective place marks for most of the planets and signs in Welsh.  I'm going 50/50 on this date with Objective/Subjective.  The Voynich script has too many words that start with the same letter and too many which follow each other exactly.  This does suggest to me for a numerology approach.

Please view these images with a grain of salt as I do say it's a 50/50 shot for the place and time when the Voynich was in the process of Authorship.

Update:

(20-09-2016, 09:50 PM)julian Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Do I understand this correctly: you convert each Voynich word to a single number, and then find a plaintext Welsh word that has the same number and call it a match? If so, the scheme seems almost completely subjective, thus I must be missing something?

Julian and all here,
 
I would like to elaborate on whether this system of numerology I’m using is subjective or objective.  First, I believe the numerology table uses 26 Voynich Glyphs that Correspond to the English Alphabet which represent numbers.  I know the Welsh Language contains 21 letters which further complicates this idea of mine but they are letters and are numbered too.  I’m going to make a calculation here for the percentage of finding 12 words which correspond to the Zodiac along with following the cipher for the Voynich Glyphs and I believe the percentage to be extremely low in finding 12 Zodiac signs not to mention the planets.
 
A)  75 total characters for Voynich Zodiac Word Numbers.
B)  85 letters in welsh for the Zodiac
C)  24 word and number tokens combined and of course the Voynich Glyphs are only represented as numbers so they really are not words.
D)  Since any letter in the Voynich Glyphs is equaled from 1-9 everything including welsh words is multiplied then divided into 9!
 
Calculation:
9x24x85x75=1,377,000
9/1,377,000
Calculated % of finding corresponding words to the Zodiac.
6.5359477124183006535947712418301e-6
 
The odds of finding 12 Zodiac Signs using my method are near impossible yet I did; so I must of hit the Holy Grail of a Cipher for the Voynich.  Unfortunately, I don’t a have a computer which uses Welsh Grammar, Syntax and can run through Trillions of computations to organize any sense of words without labels to form sentence structure.  I believe a Quantum Computer could do it, but the Welsh Voynich Numerology program language would be vast and cost millions of dollars along with the hardware.
 
I no longer believe we will see a full transcription to explain what is inside most of the Voynich Manuscript in our life time.  I have just scratched the surface with a possible way in, yet extremely intricate.  We will be guessing what’s inside for another 500 years, if humanity does not blow itself up!
 
Thanks Julian I’m still shocked at the illogical or randomness which appears neither objective nor subjective just luck.  I’m happy with it.  Cheers!
Oh and doing the math I’m still flipping a coin on whether I made any sense out of the Voynich Manuscript.
 
Tom E. O'Neil

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stellar, that's absolutely speculative, but I doubt that we will find names for constellations, stars, zodiacs in VMS (except for obvious ones, such as moon or sun). I also think that author's principle could be "the picture of the object is its name", that's why there is no text near zodiac pictures. I even can imagine situation when there is no name of the plant on a page with that plant, and labels in the manuscript are not names, but rather properties of objects drawn.

(21-09-2016, 12:50 PM)farmerjohn Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.stellar, that's absolutely speculative, but I doubt that we will find names for constellations, stars, zodiacs in VMS (except for obvious ones, such as moon or sun). I also think that author's principle could be "the picture of the object is its name", that's why there is no text near zodiac pictures. I even can imagine situation when there is no name of the plant on a page with that plant, and labels in the manuscript are not names, but rather properties of objects drawn.

I don't follow you correctly enough.  Through out the 12 diagrams of the Zodiac with the Nymphs is that what you are referring to?  There is a system to my method.  Check out this image of the Pleiade.

(21-09-2016, 04:25 PM)stellar Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

(21-09-2016, 12:50 PM)farmerjohn Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.stellar, that's absolutely speculative, but I doubt that we will find names for constellations, stars, zodiacs in VMS (except for obvious ones, such as moon or sun). I also think that author's principle could be "the picture of the object is its name", that's why there is no text near zodiac pictures. I even can imagine situation when there is no name of the plant on a page with that plant, and labels in the manuscript are not names, but rather properties of objects drawn.

I don't follow you correctly enough.  Through out the 12 diagrams of the Zodiac with the Nymphs is that what you are referring to?  There is a system to my method.  Check out this image of the Pleiade.

Stellar, I doubt if that's a "4" glyph in 8oar9. There's no definite descender and it's positioned differently from every other "4" in the manuscript, which means the number has to be changed.


Also, how do you justify the interpretation of Pleiades? I know it's been suggested by others, but there's no proof yet and there are other constellations that are represented by seven stars, and our solar system (moon, sun, earth, and four planets) was represented with seven in those days. Also, you didn't interpret the same word-token to be Taurus as others which means you need to explain your choice.

(21-09-2016, 05:37 PM)-JKP- Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

(21-09-2016, 04:25 PM)stellar Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

(21-09-2016, 12:50 PM)farmerjohn Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.stellar, that's absolutely speculative, but I doubt that we will find names for constellations, stars, zodiacs in VMS (except for obvious ones, such as moon or sun). I also think that author's principle could be "the picture of the object is its name", that's why there is no text near zodiac pictures. I even can imagine situation when there is no name of the plant on a page with that plant, and labels in the manuscript are not names, but rather properties of objects drawn.

I don't follow you correctly enough.  Through out the 12 diagrams of the Zodiac with the Nymphs is that what you are referring to?  There is a system to my method.  Check out this image of the Pleiade.

Stellar, I doubt if that's a "4" glyph in 8oar9. There's no definite descender and it's positioned differently from every other "4" in the manuscript, which means the number has to be changed.


Also, how do you justify the interpretation of Pleiades? I know it's been suggested by others, but there's no proof yet and there are other constellations that are represented by seven stars, and our solar system (moon, sun, earth, and four planets) was represented with seven in those days. Also, you didn't interpret the same word-token to be Taurus as others which means you need to explain your choice.

The fact that you doubt this glyph and to explain I'm not totally sure either, but it looks as though the scribe was writing at a slant with the quill.  It does not look like an ordinary, "a" either.  What leads me to believe that it is Pleide is that word, Aldebaran is known to be be a bright star pictured to the left of Pleide like in the Heavens.  Read the quote below:

Quote:You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.zodiac constellation, late Old English, from Latin taurus "bull, bullock, steer," also the name of the constellation, from PIE *tau-ro- "bull" (source also of Greek tauros, 

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Quote:How to see the Pleiades. If you’re familiar with the famous constellation Orion, it can help you be sure you’ve found the Pleiades. The image at right shows Orion at the bottom left. See the three stars in a row? That’s Orion’s Belt. Draw a line through the three stars of Orion’s Belt to the right – and you come to a V-shaped pattern of stars with a bright star in its midst. The V-shaped pattern is the Face of Taurus the Bull. The bright star in the V – called Aldebaran – depicts the Bull’s Eye. A bit past Aldebaran, you’ll see the Pleiades cluster, which marks the Bull’s Shoulder. In our image, the Pleiades cluster is at the top right.

Aldebaran, Arabic for follower, is thought to be in reference to this star forever chasing the Pleiades across the heavens. As a general rule, the Pleiades cluster rises into the eastern sky before Aldebaran rises, and sets in the west before Aldebaran sets. The only exception to this rule happens at far southern latitudes – like at South America’s Tierra del Fuego – where the Pleiades rise a short while after Aldebaran rises.

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Quote:Who discovered Saturn?

There is no single person who is credited with the discovery of Saturn. Saturn is one of the five planets that can be seen in the night sky without using a telescope or binoculars. The planet Saturn has been known since ancient times and was observed for thousands of years by the people of many different cultures.

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Stellar, I think you completely missed my point.

I known all about Orion, Pleiades, etc. I'm quite familiar with the constellations... I can identify many of them on sight, and have a fairly good quality telescope to view them.


What I'm saying, (besides the fact that there are other ways to interpret seven stars) is that you assigned a different VMS word token to Taurus than other people who have gone down this same road and you imposed the "4" glyph on the letter "a".

So, to support your assertions:

1. You need to justify why you turned the "a" into a "4", otherwise people might think you did so to make your numbers come out the way you want them.
   
2. You need to explain why you disagree with the labels assigned by previous researchers and switched them around.
   

(21-09-2016, 10:35 PM)-JKP- Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Stellar, I think you completely missed my point.

I known all about Orion, Pleiades, etc. I'm quite familiar with the constellations... I can identify many of them on sight, and have a fairly good quality telescope to view them.


What I'm saying, (besides the fact that there are other ways to interpret seven stars) is that you assigned a different VMS word token to Taurus than other people who have gone down this same road and you imposed the "4" glyph on the letter "a".

So, to support your assertions:

1. You need to justify why you turned the "a" into a "4", otherwise people might think you did so to make your numbers come out the way you want them.
   
2. You need to explain why you disagree with the labels assigned by previous researchers and switched them around.
   

You and I are not the scribe and in fact people have even miss interpreted plain language like old Hebrew and Aramaic translations of the Bible.  The fact is I see a 4 and I know its tail is barely visible yet the slopes do not resemble a voynich letter, "a".  I did find Aldebaran and Tauros using my numerology method.  The cluster picture for Pleiade is similar and so I'm asserting its a 4.  I disagree with Stephen Bax's work and his interpretations yet he does assert this section to be Taurus and believes the glyph we are debating on is a voynich letter, "a".

see attachment: