The Voynich Ninja

(17-11-2016, 11:14 PM)stellar Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

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(16-11-2016, 08:11 PM)Koen Gh. Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.That does add another nail in the coffin. This encoding process does not explain the structure we see in Voynichese.

Please explain?

Koen is correct, the encoding process does not explain the structure we see in Voynichese. There is a certain way in which the words are put together, both in terms of letter-order and word-order within a line in the VMS that your system does not explain or take into consideration. It would take months of preparation in order for your system to be put in place AND for the text to come out with this structure. In other words, the creator would have to create not only a dictionary/glossary or word-number equivalents, but also a full "grammar" of which ones to use and what order in which to use them.

(17-11-2016, 11:14 PM)stellar Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.This is it you got it! however I believe the Author kept a dictionary with quire numbers from the VMS with the plain text and the numbers next to the words used as a reference.  It is known that Dee annotated a Welsh to English Dictionary I would love to see it.

So the Voynich Manuscript is enciphered, but so badly that that the author had to keep a plain text handy in order to decipher it?

Are you not ashamed to put your name to this ridiculousness?

(17-11-2016, 11:32 PM)Emma May Smith Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

(17-11-2016, 11:14 PM)stellar Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.This is it you got it! however I believe the Author kept a dictionary with quire numbers from the VMS with the plain text and the numbers next to the words used as a reference.  It is known that Dee annotated a Welsh to English Dictionary I would love to see it.

So the Voynich Manuscript is enciphered, but so badly that that the author had to keep a plain text handy in order to decipher it?

Are you not ashamed to put your name to this ridiculousness?

Dear Emma,

You should know all ciphers have a crib!  And Cribs can look like anything.  I will show JKP is wrong too.

(17-11-2016, 11:51 PM)stellar Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
Dear Emma,

You should know all ciphers have a crib!  And Cribs can look like anything...

This is not even close to being true, especially in the middle ages. Many ciphers were so straightforward, they could be written from a simple alphabetic list of the basic letters or a wheel. Some, done with different methods, didn't even require this. No crib necessary.

(17-11-2016, 11:55 PM)-JKP- Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

(17-11-2016, 11:51 PM)stellar Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
Dear Emma,

You should know all ciphers have a crib!  And Cribs can look like anything...

This is not even close to being true, especially in the middle ages. Many ciphers were so straightforward, they could be written from a simple alphabetic list of the basic letters or a wheel. Some, done with different methods, didn't even require this. No crib necessary.

Yes and I will show you and you should know that the VMS is special, because its not a natural language that we can decode using normal methods.  It is a number system give me a few minutes.

JKP,

I'm sure if we were to run a frequency analysis this would look like a language yet as you know too hard to break without a crib.  I made this exercise for everyone in 3 hours time.  Yet once you get the feel you can make up words at a fast clip.

Notice that when I used the Pythagorean number system table I managed to make it look like a language in just 1 paragraph thus having a frequency set.

Using this system it quite easy to shorten long words and still maintain the look and feel of a language.  The system I use is kinda of a grill like Gordon Rugg suggests.

An interesting comparison would be is to know the average length of a voynich vord and compare with my little paragraph to see if I'm on to something.  Another fact is that the Voynich Manuscript could be a copy of another book as it was easy for me to just make up glyph's and use the Pythagorean table.

Just looking at my paragraph it would seem that I have almost an exact match for 5.5 average.
let me do some math 
Here is my calculation for the paragraph.

1(8 letter word) 1 (7 letter word) 7(6 letter words) 6 (5 letter words) 8 ( 4 letter words) 9 ( 3 letter words) 13 ( 2 letter words) 7 (1 letter words)

54 total vords

                                    1+1+7+6+8+9+13+7 
___________________________________________________= 6.5 average

                                              8          
After recalculating I'm of by a whole word of 1!  Maybe there is something to be said about math and language combined and some sort of universal thinking using the two.

Quote: The average word length for voynich glyph's is 5.5.
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CRIB of words taken from JKP's site:

Quote:When I first saw Dee’s handwriting, I noticed similarities between it and the VMS columnar text, but after sampling the handwriting of other writers, it appears that this style of script was widespread geographically even if it was not entirely common (I encountered many other styles in the search for this handful of samples).

See cipher:

My question remains though: how can your system help us to decode a full text folio without any drawings? It looks like first you need an idea about what it could be, and then you make it work by shuffling around the grammar a bit and omitting words where necessary.

(18-11-2016, 12:52 AM)Koen Gh. Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.My question remains though: how can your system help us to decode a full text folio without any drawings? It looks like first you need an idea about what it could be, and then you make it work by shuffling around the grammar a bit and omitting words where necessary.

Koen,

Since I believe the VMS is in a number system we will never decode it fully unless we have a crib of words, a book or text that exactly matches the code I have provided.  Maybe its in Dee's Library if he wrote it, but his Library was ransacked and a great deal of material was lost when he was traveling.  When I try to decode full paragraphs even with pictures subjectivity is increased.  I do believe my system is correct regarding the astronomy and some parts of the VMS pictures.  Check it out.  I'm really depressed that I know we may not ever decode the voynich in full, because of this revelation.

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(17-11-2016, 11:03 PM)stellar Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

(17-11-2016, 02:44 AM)Witch Mountain Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Intriguing, Stellar. Why do you suppose the author would not just encode the Genesis passage as it is written in the Bible, instead of this syntax, which seems somewhat unnatural: "And serpent more subtle beasts the every field Lord Creator make..."

Thank you Dear Witch Mountain,

1) All can say is if it were Dee maybe he was not using a Bible at the time and relied on memory.

Dear Stellar, indeed this is even more curious! But if he was relying on memory, wouldn't he still form correct grammar? I don't remember the exact wording of the passage myself, but I'd produce "The Lord Creator made every beast of the field" long before "Beasts the every field Lord Creator make."

Quote:2) This too puzzled me for syntax:  Yet Dee did intermix Welsh with English, example this poem!

Byd and Twys Welsh words.

Curiouser and curioser, dear Stellar! This is a good find. Is it possible that Byd = "bid" (I bid thee) and "twys" = "twice" ?

Dear Witch Mountain,

Many Bibles have different translations as you know.

Here is one which uses beasts.