The Voynich Ninja

(Yesterday, 03:35 PM)Koen G Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.The looped f is interesting, it's not something I noticed before.

The problem with "h" remains the descender on the right leg though. In the marginalia, we have a minim with a foot (little uptick), but as far as I know this should always be a descender, as shown in your examples as well. This is not an "h".

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Note that there is an "f" on f116v, which is almost certainly the same hand, and definitely the same script. No sign of a loop here... (unless it's the faintest of hairlines)

@ Koan thx, and I'm not very familiar with page 116v either. I've looked at it several times, but I've never analyzed it. I look at the picture, and you might be right.

and sorry, I don't understand what you mean about the "h". The h here is identical to the one in the template of the example? But that is not what u mean? 

At the moment, I'm analyzing the rest of the text, and there are a few vague indications that it might even have something to do with the plant on the right. But I'm still struggling with the barely legible writing.

I love such puzzles  .

For Example: At the moment I'm wondering whether the LL in the 5th word is actually a T, like this:

[attachment=12010]

for:  
the part after the LL could be miniet or animet

the part bevor = ora(t)??? miniet (please dye red, maybe the plant??? - The master beekeeper has been asked to dye the plant red. With bee resin???  )

And i think the second word could be abar'= abare. 
the fourth word could be Her'= Herbal ?

The last word could be the abbreviation for alchemy (still very uncertain), with the word before it perhaps something like workshop of alchemy "Official(is)" or somthing like that? (still very, very uncertain;too )

And the possibility that he switched to Voynichese is also quite high.

so I am far from being sure. Does anyone have ideas in this context?

We have to see what's written on the page and try to derive the meaning (if any) from there, not the other way around. It really helps to look at some actual manuscripts that use this style. This is more consistent than picking matches from a book that mixes different styles.

The top 25 or so entries in this spreadsheet should give you an idea: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. 

You will see that this "t" you propose does not make much sense. 

What I mean with "h" is that all examples you posted have a descender on the right leg. A descender is a line that extends below the base line. This is expected in gothic scripts of the 15th century. The stroke you would read as the right leg of "h" in "malher" does not have a descender - in fact, we can clearly see that the stroke is finished with a little upward tick.

Ah, that's where the misunderstanding lies. I meant the h in “her” not in “malhar.” The h in the fourth word is the same as in the example from Fh Potsdam (line 3) — the other letters are also very similar, which is why the f with a loop would also be possible.

However, if I interpret the h in malhar as Pi, I am aware that it is too high and that it is a capital gothic P, probably to lean against the loop of the A, visually. If that were the case, a capital T would also be possible here, as it also leans against the loop of the A (see b).

But anyway, I don't want to hijack the thread here, my way of working seems to be a little different So let's leave it at that, I'll get back to here if I manage to turn it into a grammatically correct and meaningful sentence. It's the result that counts, the path to it is often confusing .

The one thing people must know before investigating the "michiton" riddle is the Big Water Stain of f116v:

[attachment=12044]

The full extent of this stain (labeleed "A") is visible only in the ultraviolet images MB365UV_{007,029,037}_F, and thus it was discovered only recently.  In the royal-blue images MB450RB_* only a few bits of the outline are visible, and its true extent cannot be grasped.

The ink used for text and figure outlines of the VMS is definitely not waterproof, as one can see on any page where the clumsy  Painter ran over a figure outline with his brush.  So the spill that created the stain on You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. must have severely damaged any text that was written inside that area.  Indeed, the outline of the stain may be defined by some of the ink that was washed away, all the way down to that line.  

I used to think that the "michton" text (like the month names) was a sad attempt by the Author or some later owner to write a charm or some other text on You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. -- in some European language and European script that he had only a very rudimentary knowledge of.   Like what I would produce if I had to write something in Arabic, even copying from some source.  That would explain why 100+ years of concentrated efforts by paleographers have failed to identify the language and decipher the text.

But now, after seeing that stain, I have a better explanation.  The "michiton" text was originally all in Voynichese.  Then at some point in the last 600 years that page got soaked with water, down to the current edge of the stain.  Most of the text was washed away, sparing only the aror Sheey at the start of the last line.   After hastily mopping up the water (which made the damage worse) the owner at the time tried to restore the text.  But he had absolutely no understanding of the Voynichese alphabet, and may have never paid any attention to that page before.  So he unconsciously interpreted the few faint traces that remained as handwritten Latin letters, and retraced them as such.  

Which, I think, better explains why not a single word in that text makes any sense, in any language...

The Big Water Stain on You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. need not have happened at the same time as other stains inside the book. (I suppose that the VMS was lying on a table and someone spilled a glass of water nearby.  So maybe the book had no cover at the time and the water got only under the book, or maybe it rose enough to get between the back cover and f116v.) Thus the person who tried to restore You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. need not have been any of the other "Restorers" who acted in the rest of the VMS.  

As for the line marked "B" on the image above, my guess is that it is the edge of the area that, at some later time, was rubbed with chemicals in an attempt to bring out more of the faded writing.  Like stain at the bottom and along the right margin of f1r.  Maybe by Voynich himself, too.

All the best, --stolfi

As I said, once I have a coherent translation, I'll get back to you—it was quicker than I thought.

m apiar' appar' fus3 her' q(a)r AT minime [...] [...]

Magister apiarius apparat [ceram] fusam [cum] herbis; quare autem minime

Translation: The master beekeeper prepares melted wax with herbs; therefore, however, it is by no means to be used...

(I assume the herbs refer to the plant on the side.)

The two missing words at the end of the sentence cannot be translated, possibly already ProtoVoynichese – it will probably be something like: in the Ear canal, or in the eyes, etc.

Explanations

m apiarius -> I already explained this above.

appar ->  Of course, if the P in aparius is a P, then the two “LL”s in "allar" can also be P'. So simple, but it took me a long time to figure it out! With the apostrophe = apparat.

Ceram is included implicit – seems to have been common practice.

I added "cum", not necessary, but makes it easier to understand.

Her' = herbis

The q(a)r = quarem  The “a” is superscripted above the r. (Lexicon abbreviaturarum page 287) if you look closely, you can see the "a" above the r (very faint).

I have already described bevor the capital AT = autem with picture (Ligatur with Capital Letters=Lexicon abbreviaturarum page 23)

minime (I'm missing a downward stroke, but such things were often sloppy)

That's all I can do.... Have fun with it