The Voynich Ninja

Quote:Yes, that's already been discussed above. The question is: was that common in German language manuscripts? Are there any characteristic examples?

I have no examples in German for you, 
i only thought i should mention that it is not only used when vowels are left out, but can mean anything is left out.

The reason i do not have German examples:
* i did not find nor focused on "German language" in that era
* i have only seen this used in Spanish, Portuguese, English, Italian and Latin.
* In the south of German and der Sweiss, they wrote a.o. Hochdeutsch and latin

This is a bit confusing, because now, German is the general name and that is considered to be Hochdeutsch. Around 1400-1500 however, "German" as it exists now, did not exist as Standarddeutsch. There were only different dialects depending on the region. But please feel free to correct me if i am wrong.


Read more:
Hochdeutsch steht für:

• You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. (auch Schriftdeutsch), die deutsche Standardsprache in den Varietäten
  
  • You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.,
    
  • You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. und
    
  • You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view..
    
• You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view., die Mundarten im mittel- und oberdeutschen Raum
  

Quote:This is a bit confusing, because now, German is the general name and that is considered to be Hochdeutsch. Around 1400-1500 however, "German" as it exists now, did not exist as Standarddeutsch. There were only different dialects depending on the region. But please feel free to correct me if i am wrong.

Yes, of course I'm aware of that. I use the word "German" as a shortcut only. Even now, there are numerous dialects. And in those times even the "standard" German did not exist as it is, rather it was the so-called Early New High German which was the development of the Middle High German.

The You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. is an excellent resource for various "Germans", including the monumental German dictionary by the brothers Grimm, and also a very useful Middle High German dictionary by Matthias Lexer.

Quote:Yes, of course I'm aware of that.

I am sorry, i did not want to get you angry, just wanted to give some background info. you have no country-flag to your name,
so i am sorry my information was a pure waste.

(30-03-2016, 01:07 PM)Davidsch Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

Quote:Yes, of course I'm aware of that.

I am sorry, i did not want to get you angry, just wanted to give some background info. you have no country-flag to your name,
so i am sorry my information was a pure waste.

No problem at all, I did not get angry or anything.

As for country, I reside in Moscow. It's a technical deficiency of the country flag functionality that if you did not specify your country at the registration, you cannot specify it later. We can override that by making the country field mandatory, but I'm not sure if we want to.

I saw that the word You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. was already mentioned. I also prefer to figure out the underlying letter before a correction in the word "mallier". As a possible variant, I consider the word You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. (Old French?), which means "neflier"You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. or, maybe, any melliferous herb, so, as it was supposed by Anton (or, maybe, also by someone elsel) the beginning of the sentence could be:
"Mellier aller luc[orum] her[ba] ...



It seems to be similar to the plant on the f17r in some details, but, in general, I think, this similarity is doubtful.

I have a multi-lingual take on this, which I developed after a glass of wine last night. Today I thought "I bet that f17r marginalia has been covered on the Ninja", and wasn't disappointed!



This looks like (if you squint hard enough): "malhar allar lut3 hest vitellum" ... with maybe some faint characters afterwards.  

1. malhar - (Portugese) meaning "strike" or "thresh"
   
   
2. allar - (Icelandic) meaning "all"
   
   
3. lut3 - (Latin) Luteum meaning "yellow". The short line above the "t3" is a macron, and scribes in medieval times usually used it to indicate an abbreviation, most commonly a missing "m" or "n". The "3" itself can mean a missing "ue". 
   
   
4. hest - (Latin) meaning "best"
   
   
5. vitellum - (Latin) meaning "yolk"
   

The obvious interpretation is as a puzzling multi-language instruction to "beat all your best yellow yolks" - perhaps in order to make a desert using the plant depicted on the same folio?

(30-09-2016, 02:05 AM)julian Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I have a multi-lingual take on this, which I developed after a glass of wine last night. Today I thought "I bet that f17r marginalia has been covered on the Ninja", and wasn't disappointed!



This looks like (if you squint hard enough): "malhar allar lut3 hest vitellum" ... with maybe some faint characters afterwards.  

1. malhar - (Portugese) meaning "strike" or "thresh"
   
   
2. allar - (Icelandic) meaning "all"
   
   
3. lut3 - (Latin) Luteum meaning "yellow". The short line above the "t3" is a macron, and scribes in medieval times usually used it to indicate an abbreviation, most commonly a missing "m" or "n". The "3" itself can mean a missing "ue". 
   
   
4. hest - (Latin) meaning "best"
   
   
5. vitellum - (Latin) meaning "yolk"
   

The obvious interpretation is as a puzzling multi-language instruction to "beat all your best yellow yolks" - perhaps in order to make a desert using the plant depicted on the same folio?

Some thoughts...

I don't think it's malhar. The writer doesn't write "h" that way on this page or on the last page. It always has a descender. I think it's mallier.

The third vowel is not an "a"—it's most probably an "e". The first one is probably a fractured "a".


I don't think it's allar (the second vowel is an "e"). You have to remember that many medieval writers did not put loops on their "e" and this writer does usually emphasize the stem on the "a" (which the third vowel doesn't have). However, even if it's aller, it might mean "all".

It's not lut3, it's luc3/lucz with "c". That's not how the writer writes the letter "t" (even though earlier 13th and 14th century scribes often wrote the "t" as a curve, this writer doesn't). I agree it's an abbreviation (it's indicated with the over-line) and that it could be lucrum or lucorum (both of which could be abbreviated this way).


The rest I'm not sure of. I've commented on them on my blog but they are very hard to discern.

Quote:hest - (Latin) meaning "best"

Hest - Latin?

(30-09-2016, 04:47 PM)Searcher Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

Quote:hest - (Latin) meaning "best"

Hest - Latin?

That's what Google Translate gave me, but indeed I'm drawing a blank in my Latin dictionary.

(01-10-2016, 12:50 AM)julian Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

(30-09-2016, 04:47 PM)Searcher Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

Quote:hest - (Latin) meaning "best"

Hest - Latin?

That's what Google Translate gave me, but indeed I'm drawing a blank in my Latin dictionary.

Hest is horse in Norse, but I really don't see "hest" in there. The "t" is too high and close to the previous letter. It looks more like one letter stretched out than two letters smushed together.