(08-05-2021, 02:39 PM)Helmut Winkler Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.[...] if you take the C14 dating into acount, it should be around 1420, the marginalia with the big loops are late 15th c., let us say around 1480, the quire markings should be about the same time, the foliation is later, I think 17th c.
The problem is that the f17r marginalia has both the big loops and Voynichese at the end of the line (which I first saw on my trip to the Beinecke in 2006 using a black lamp).
This seems to imply that the two were written at around the same time.
(08-05-2021, 04:51 PM)nickpelling Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. (08-05-2021, 02:39 PM)Helmut Winkler Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.[...] if you take the C14 dating into acount, it should be around 1420, the marginalia with the big loops are late 15th c., let us say around 1480, the quire markings should be about the same time, the foliation is later, I think 17th c.
The problem is that the f17r marginalia has both the big loops and Voynichese at the end of the line (which I first saw on my trip to the Beinecke in 2006 using a black lamp).
This seems to imply that the two were written at around the same time.
You find the same problem in the last line of 116v, i.e. Voynichese and 'normal' script together, I would say that the person that wrote ther marginalia at the end of the century could read (and write) Voynichese, whatever that implies. It is one of the reasons that I think it means that the ms. is not a ciphre, but a plaintext and readable and understandable
(08-05-2021, 06:15 PM)Helmut Winkler Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.It is one of the reasons that I think it means that the ms. is not a ciphre, but a plaintext and readable and understandable
This returns us to the question why the two would be mixed in a single line then.
(08-05-2021, 07:23 PM)Anton Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. (08-05-2021, 06:15 PM)Helmut Winkler Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.It is one of the reasons that I think it means that the ms. is not a ciphre, but a plaintext and readable and understandable
This returns us to the question why the two would be mixed in a single line then.
Why not? I use different languages in the same line in my notes as well. I think it is one of the worst faults in Voynich research to suspect some deep secret whenever someone does not understand something, in most cases it is just lack of knowledge of the subject in questuon (there are lots of examples in nearly every thread)
That "malher aller" line... those two words to me look like "meillior allor", which sounds Romance, could be older French, with the Modern French being "meilleur alors" and Italian being "meglio allora" or "meglio allor'". It means "better then". Or maybe a dialect of Occitan? It would certainly line up with other Occitan words in the manuscript, such as that "solhelh" for "sun" and those Month names.
(08-05-2021, 04:51 PM)nickpelling Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.The problem is that the f17r marginalia has both the big loops and Voynichese at the end of the line (which I first saw on my trip to the Beinecke in 2006 using a black lamp).
This seems to imply that the two were written at around the same time.
When I look at page 66r on this question, and it's really good to see here.
Same ink and same pen. The German text, the drawing and the VM text have the same look.
Even if some time had passed in between, the colour of the ink would probably also be a little darker due to the evaporation of the ink.
I see no reason to believe that it should be different on page 17.
I think in the same turn, or shortly after. As an afterthought, so to speak.
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Right next to the marginalia, there also seems to be “erased” or accidentally printed (maybe due to the fresh ink) blue “petals” of the flower. I tried to look for a familiar flower inside the MS, but to no avail.
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