I've noticed from the beginning that no one likes my reading of mallier aller lucorum her, but all of it is in northern dialect except luc'z (which is Latin for luc[orum] which means green).
male, malle, mallier is "to paint" in Norse and some of the northern German and Norman regions
aller is "all" in Norse
her is "here" in Norse
(I'm using Norse as shorthand to refer to the old medieval Scandinavian languages, all of which share common vocabulary.)
It's readable even today, the words haven't changed. The spelling has barely changed. The "r" at the end of "aller" isn't unusual, some people pronounce it that way, the only significant oddity is the "i" in mallier and even that isn't odd in the context of Normandy/northern France where some of the French forms were sprinkled in by "Nor'men" (north men—Scandinavians), the settlers who migrated south and west along the coast to northern France and what is now the Netherlands.
I'm not insisting this is what it is, because there aren't enough words to be sure, but if it is related to old Norman/Norse, it's completely readable.
I moved the subject posts into the subject thread.
Quote:I wrote You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. it could be pullamina (foal / chicks).
I see "vull" rather than "pull". You are not allowed to view links.
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Login to view. suggests that "vull" = "voll" in some German regions (like e.g. "voll" in "Vollmond"). But the Latin-looking second part of the word would be strange in this context.
Quote:I've noticed from the beginning that no one likes my reading of mallier aller lucorum her, but all of it is in northern dialect except luc'z (which is Latin for luc[orum] which means green).
male, malle, mallier is "to paint" in Norse and some of the northern German and Norman regions
aller is "all" in Norse
her is "here" in Norse
For me, there are two problems with this reading. First, that not
all is painted green
here. Second, that the context of the following words and vords is left unexplained. This is a single line, so "vullanima
oteeeor dim" should also attract some attention.
"Aller" and "her" are also valid German words, as well as "mal" and "lier" (the latter e.g. as word form of "lieren" = "lehren").
I think the problem with You are not allowed to view links.
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"Munic" is something in between "Moench" and "Munich"
, but (for the only path that I explored) checking "mun" in Lexer leads to "muegen", and the latter seems (the article is difficult for me to follow) to relate to "Moeglichkeit", so with "vull" as "voll", "vullmunic" may stand for something like "omnipotent" or "allmighty". Just speculation, of course, but it shows possible diverse ways that dialects of the 15th century can take.
I actually like your proposal JKP. Is the Voynichese word in the text on this page? Then its inclusion in the marginalia could be an indication of posotion. Like: paint everything green next to/ above/ below/ in between these vords.
I was glancing through the text to see if there are vords similar to the first VMS vord.
I looked for ones starting with
otee since the rest is not so clear. I couldn't find a direct match, but found these (hopefully I transcribed them correctly, I don't normally use EVA):
oteeshs f70r1 outer rings
oteedar f85/86v4 rings
oteesas f85/86v6
oteeedy %
oteedaiin rosette 4 & 5 rings
oteeedy rosette 5 ring
oteesey rosette 9 ring
oteeysaiin plant f90v2
oteear plant You are not allowed to view links.
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oteeaM You are not allowed to view links.
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oteeeor (this might be the closest) You are not allowed to view links.
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oteedal You are not allowed to view links.
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otee also occurs frequently with endings -y and -dy (not surprisingly).
(24-08-2017, 09:31 PM)Anton Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I moved the subject posts into the subject thread.
Quote:I wrote You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. it could be pullamina (foal / chicks).
I see "vull" rather than "pull". You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. suggests that "vull" = "voll" in some German regions (like e.g. "voll" in "Vollmond"). But the Latin-looking second part of the word would be strange in this context.
Quote:I've noticed from the beginning that no one likes my reading of mallier aller lucorum her, but all of it is in northern dialect except luc'z (which is Latin for luc[orum] which means green).
male, malle, mallier is "to paint" in Norse and some of the northern German and Norman regions
aller is "all" in Norse
her is "here" in Norse
For me, there are two problems with this reading. First, that not all is painted green here. Second, that the context of the following words and vords is left unexplained. This is a single line, so "vullanima oteeeor dim" should also attract some attention.
"Aller" and "her" are also valid German words, as well as "mal" and "lier" (the latter e.g. as word form of "lieren" = "lehren").
Thank you, Anton!
I can say nothing about the Norse. I can only add that, as I wrote in 2014 on the site of Stephen Bax and in 2016 in You are not allowed to view links.
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- Aulus Gellius, Noctes Atticae (II Century) “lucorum umbra ingentium” (by the shade of its spacious groves).
- 1 Kings, 18, Vulgate Bible (IV Century) “prophetasque lucorum quadringentos” (and the prophets of the groves four hundred).
- Adam of Breme, Gesta Hammaburgensis Ecclesiae Pontificum (XI Century): “prohibetur accessus lucorum et fontium” (the entrance to the sacred groves and springs was inaccessible).
- Athanasius Kircher, Latii tum veteris tum novi descriptio (1671) “per varias lucorum vias” (by various wooded paths).
Green is “viridis,” there are You are not allowed to view links.
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In the context of a painting instruction, I would expect the ablative “viridi”, like in You are not allowed to view links.
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viridi in parte inferiori picto” (painted green in the lower part).
“picto” aside, there are innumerable examples of the use of “viridis”.
E.g. Pliny (Historiae) describes a variety of figs as “sine lacte, cortice
viridi” ([it] is entirely destitute of all milky juice, and has a green bark)
More examples in classical and medieval Latin at You are not allowed to view links.
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I'll always defer to Marco on matters of Latin.
I agree, lucorum = of the groves [of trees], of the chases (a more archaic word than groves).
Luc'z can also stand for lucrum (another Latin word), but I'm not sure how it could fit in this context. Perhaps it's possible, but I don't see a clear fit.
I think there are several more ways to read the "lucz", e.g. lucem or lucet, but in this contextI I would suggest luc[ea]m her[bam], one of the Alchemical Herbs
(25-08-2017, 08:43 AM)Helmut Winkler Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I think there are several more ways to read the "lucz", e.g. lucem or lucet, but in this contextI I would suggest luc[ea]m her[bam], one of the Alchemical Herbs
Thank you, Helmut!
This is an interesting idea. In particular, the Vermont herbal has four different versions of Luccia, two have eyes on the leaves:
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The one at p.24 is suggested as a cure for eye-diseases. This seems relevant to me because the root of You are not allowed to view links.
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The connection could also work independently of the Alchemical plant, since You are not allowed to view links.
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I don't remember if you ever wrote what you think of the other words in that line?