| Welcome, Guest |
You have to register before you can post on our site.
|
|
|
Voynich location and writer investigation |
|
Posted by: psychobilly - 16-02-2025, 07:51 PM - Forum: Voynich Talk
- Replies (2)
|
 |
Hello, for some time I have been interested in the Voynich because of its symbolic value, which made me think of various theories, for me the most plausible (I admit controversy) is the one that is a book that talks about "energy" because according to me this idea would fit with the content, I assumed this when I thought that the author had no intentions of stacking papers and putting a cliche on it, nor do I think that he talks about a specific subject like a herbarium or something like that but rather a kind of "gospel", I think that someone was trying to create something of a universal instance, a kind of role in the world, so it is in theory a religious book, I also realized that this book mixes Christian ideas with other obviously heretical ones but it has a pre-Renaissance style so the book is deeply spiritual. There are parts of the book that fit with medieval representation of Venus, eg: Scene With Venus From the Fifteenth Century Lombard Manuscript De Sphaera, if we take this and energy into account we could associate muses and lares. Lares seem to be very typical in astrological charts. And the muses appear in a photograph, despite my high speculation I grouped all these thoughts and notes in a kind of blog, clearly this content is full of nonsense and gibberish but I think they serve as a good starting point for anyone to address the line I mentioned. The blog in question is You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. , but the point of this comment in the forum is that I came to the conclusion that the book was written or is related to the kingdom of Castile in Spain in those years, in fact I take for granted that the Voynichese language is based on Latin, and this Voynichese language is surely closer to Spanish than any other ... when I made this appreciation and investigated along that line I came to a particular place where I in my controversy have identified with the city of Ávila Spain .. in fact I am convinced that the place described in the book is nothing more than this city, with its wall and etc. but to make this even stranger I think the author could be "Áviles", why do I say this? I came to this conclusion by other means but the tests that gave me more certainties were the following, the text has a writing similar to these images:
![[Image: 961px-padrc3b3n-hidalgos-castropol-1580-89-jpg.webp]](https://i.ibb.co/BVfNXKtx/961px-padrc3b3n-hidalgos-castropol-1580-89-jpg.webp)
but the most intriguing is the following:
"Perpetual Law of Castilla":
![[Image: Ley_perpetua_de_castilla.jpg]](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/eb/Ley_perpetua_de_castilla.jpg)
Now draw your own conclusions. If this is correct, then what the girl is holding and what is written below could be the word "clover" (trébol):
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
Saludos
|
|
|
| Peculiar benches |
|
Posted by: Bluetoes101 - 14-02-2025, 11:40 PM - Forum: Analysis of the text
- Replies (6)
|
|
I have some questions for those amongst the community who have studied the text.
Or those that maybe are just aware of past studies which touched on these topics.
What are your thoughts on benched gallows/benches which end with;
- the gallows glyph (missing "h")?
- "o". "h" is looped to complete an "o" shape?
- "i". Do you think "cXi" is a valid bench formation, or even "ci" rather than "ch" or "ih"?
I am assuming "ih" "iXh" is accepted. It seems clear to me, but maybe others do not think so?
(I am using X to represent p,f,t,k)
The reason I ask is that I am wondering what I should include in a writing system proposal.
For example.
Is point 2 too niche to include and better considered a mistake, or an oddity outside a normal building blocks. If not, is it a normal "o" joined on, or a new thing to considered all together with the whole, such as a variation of "h". Maybe it is somehow linked to "qo"? I do not know, just thoughts.
I know there are no sure answers, but a compelling theory would be interesting to hear.
|
|
|
|
| Quire 13 and Witchcraft |
|
Posted by: dashstofsk - 12-02-2025, 10:30 AM - Forum: Voynich Talk
- Replies (2)
|
 |
Has anyone put forward the hypothesis that quire 13 ( balneological ) is intended to portray witchcraft? It seems to me that this might give a plausible explanation for the pipes and the communal bathing and other strange things in this quire.
In many places witches are shown with their hands inside something that looks like a pipe. In particular in f82r. The centre image shows a witch with a hand inside a cross pipe with something blowing from the end at a bright star which leads by a thread towards a dark star that hovers over a dead person. The interpretation is that the witch has cast a spell over the person who now lies dead. The bright star represents life. The dark star, death. In You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. at the top two witches have their hands inside a pipe with stuff falling out between. What seems to be falling is lightning, rain, thunder, snow. The interpretation is that the witches have the power to alter the weather and bring down a deluge. In the bottom image on You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. you see once again snow, rain, a downpour, with witches working their magic. In the centre image on f77r, once again a pipe. Also in f77v, f83r, f83v.
So what are the pipes? The hypothesis is that the pipes are intended to represent the conduits by which spells travel through the ether. Belief in witchcraft was very strong to people in the 15th century. If you got ill or your farm animals died or the land flooded or extreme weather ruined your crops then it was the work of a witch. Moreover they had the powers to project a spell over some distance.
There are also other images of death. In You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. at the bottom farm animals are floating in the pond, dead. The figure on the left is being swallowed by a whale. A witch is shown with a hand in the conduit flowing into the pond. The interpretation is that the pond has been deliberately hexed with a poisonous spell and is now possessed.
Other strange things: in You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. the figure top left is holding a herb. The figure underneath is holding a dead chicken. This hints at a black ritual.
A hypothesis for the communal bathing can also be suggested. Just as in the christian tradition it is necessary for the faithful to commune with regular congregation in order to fortify their faith so a similar need exists in witchcraft, for witches to renew their powers and also as an initiation into their circle. Because christian blessings came down to good people from on high from the direction of heaven the powers of sorcery came up from the underworld. Bathing in a pool is how the witches submit themselves to the underworld in order to receive its ‘blessings’. Traditional folklore frequently quotes the ritual of witches going out at midnight on a full moon to bathe in fresh spring water.
Of course we know today that this is all bunkum. But people in the 15th century took it seriously. So might it be that someone of more progressive thought decided to take advantage of these beliefs, created a deliberate deception, and wrote not fact but a fabricated lie, to make people believe that there was some distant land where they used a strange alphabet and where they had the secret of witchcraft? Such a claim would have been of immense curiosity.
|
|
|
|
| A trail of quatrefoils |
|
Posted by: R. Sale - 11-02-2025, 11:56 PM - Forum: Analysis of the text
- Replies (2)
|
|
Better than breadcrumbs, because they last so much longer, the VMs presents an uncommon use of quatrefoils as markers in a set of circular illustrations from several parts of the book. It also happens that the quatrefoils occur in illustrations known for other reasons, the cosmos, White Aries, and the central Rosette.
As functional markers for specific text segments, there is the option of either 'accidental' or intentional construction. A workable structure has been put in place for the demarcation of hidden text, but has it been used? How to determine the difference between a live line and a dead wire? These text segments need to be investigated singly and collectively to better understand the situation.
|
|
|
|
| F17r plant: Alkanna Tinctoria? |
|
Posted by: eggyk - 09-02-2025, 08:45 PM - Forum: Imagery
- Replies (15)
|
 |
Hello,
While working on ideas for the marginalia on You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. , possible interpretations I was sifting through included the (re)illuminating of the red colour on the roots. ChatGPT (amongst many spurious and irrelevant pieces of information) mentioned the plant "Alkanna tinctoria", otherwise referred to as Dyer's Alkanet, Alkanna Matthioli, and some other names.
I did some looking, and in my opinion, the resemblance of Alkanet with You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. is rather close. I looked around here and hadn't seen it mentioned yet. If it has been discussed already, I apologise.
Here are a couple of links to some images of the plant as i do not wish to post copyrighted images here:
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
This one also has a couple of images of the fresh roots:
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
It grows primarily across the mediterranean and southern europe. It seems that the plant grows into quite "bushy" formations. Interestingly, some of it's leaves also seem to redden, which also draws my attention to You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. . Blue flowers/bulbs, bushy, reddened leaves?
Here are some wonderful photos showing those red leaves (amongst many other shots):
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
Alkanet root has been used as a source for red/purplish dye and a few medicinal purposes since antiquity. If this really is correct, it would certainly be interesting as it may imply that the manuscript provided information on where to collect the materials to create dyes and pigments.
I would be interested in some opinions on this, is there anything to it? If so, what information would that provide to us?
|
|
|
|
| Foil Q9f67r1- Stations of the Moon |
|
Posted by: BessAgritianin - 09-02-2025, 07:42 AM - Forum: Theories & Solutions
- Replies (20)
|
|
Hello Everybody,
Here I include a link to SOME readings made on foil Q967r1.
Please, excuse me for the not very well organized web page, but I am a retired person who does it for fun and no way competition in researcher's excellence.
The forward file contains some of my findings about the alphabet.
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
For feed back and critics I am always open.
Enjoy!
|
|
|
|
|
Weird linguistics: features of natural languages that might be relevant |
|
Posted by: bt2901 - 07-02-2025, 04:55 PM - Forum: Voynich Talk
- No Replies
|
|
I'm not proposing a solution. Rather, I want to highlight some of the more exotic properties of natural languages that could possibly bring the text closer to VM regularity level and which I don't believe were discussed here.
I don't think these will be enough to explain features of VM text, but I believe that no "natural language plaintext substitution" theory could be plausible unless it uses at least some of them. So I want to play Devil's Advocate a little.
1) Phrasal clitics
Clitic is something in-between a bound morpheme and independent word. They were present in Proto-Indo-European and many languages descended from PIE still contain some vestiges. The position of phrasal clitics obeys Wackernagel's law: roughly speaking, it requies phrasal clitic(s) to always be in the second position of the sentence.
An example from contemporary Czech: Já jsem si ho prohlížel. All bolded words are clitics. As you can see, they are gathered in the same position -- importantly, their order inside this position is also very strict (e.g. "li", if present, should be placed first).
This effect could explain some of line-position and paragraph-position dependence. If we assume that each line/paragraph is a complete sentence, then the occurrence of clitics close to beginning is pretty expected (I'm not sure if repeating the same clitic is allowed though; it is ungrammatical in the languages I know of).
2) Strong vowel harmony, imperfectly transcribed
Turkic and Mongolian languages has vowel harmony system. For example, in the Turkish language all vowels in a given word are either front or back (nowadays it's more complicated thanks to loanwords, but let's ignore it). Modern Latin orthography divides vowels into a/ı/o/u and e/i/ö/ü. You could describe vowel harmony in Turkish as "either every vowel is dotted, or neither is". You probably could analyze Turkish as having 4 vowels and a "frontness" suprasegmental feature instead of 8 vowels.
This could plausibly cut the number of required vowel letters by half.
3) Tone indicators
Some of Chinese languages (Hmong, Zhuang, Unified Miao) use letters both for their sound value and as tone indicators.
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
Quote:The Hmong alphabet uses its letters for a job traditionally assigned to diacritics. It’s a rare case where a K isn’t a K and a second O isn’t like the first O: they’re qualities of the vowels before them.
If we again assume that lines/paragraphs correspond to sentences, and the words that require distinguishing with tone prefer specific positions in the sentence (maybe they all are verbs, for example), then non-flat letter distribution could arise as a result.
4) Non-rhyming poetry
Some forms of poetry are unrhymed (most notably, Japanese haikus) but instead employ verbal and grammatical parallelism.
5) Vowels affecting the consonants
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. that iotated/non-iotated vowels in Cyrillic alphabet could create a digraph system where digraph doesn't look like a ligature. She asks:
Quote:The question is whether such relationships between any related series of sounds (such as palatized and non-palatized) is realistic.
Well, aside from palatalization in Slavic languages, there also are You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.,
Abkhaz (that You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. as a plausible language candidate before) has three-way voiced/voiceless/ejective and palatalized/labialized/plain distinction in the consonant system and only two different vowels. John Colarusso conjectures that the ancestor of Abkhaz (Proto-Northwest Caucasian) had a normal 5 vowel system originally that collapsed into /a e i o u/ > /a ʲa ʲə ʷa ʷə/, where the vowel affected the quality of preceding consonant.
|
|
|
|
|
![[Image: abc.jpg]](https://i.postimg.cc/nzYptK0g/abc.jpg)
![[Image: abcc.jpg]](https://i.postimg.cc/q71NdTq2/abcc.jpg)