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| The Voynich Manuscript is a cipher because...? |
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Posted by: Emma May Smith - 12-02-2016, 09:17 PM - Forum: Analysis of the text
- Replies (52)
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I'm curious to know what the best arguments are for the Voynich manuscript being a cipher.
I'm specifically interested in the thoughts of those who believe in a cryptological solution. What made you follow this path? What do you consider strong evidence for it?
I'm most wanting the positive arguments rather than the negative ones: why it is a cipher rather than why it isn't one of the alternative solutions.
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| The containers in the Pharma section |
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Posted by: ReneZ - 12-02-2016, 06:29 PM - Forum: Imagery
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Somewhere else in this forum I suggested that the 'simple' containers in the pharma section (3 bifolios in quires 15 and 19) look as if they could be made of wood. This could also be true for the more elaborate ones, but let's look at the simpler ones first.
These are found on the two bifolios of quire 19, up to and including f102 recto. On f102 verso the more elaborate containers start, which are then continued on the earlier bifolio in quire 15.
They look like 'open' containers that could also have a lid, and only one of them seems to have a lid, though this is far from certain from the drawings.
Typical "open" container on f99r:
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Perhaps only closed one on f100r:
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The following page (in German, with pictures) gives some real examples from our time frame of interest:
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This page tries to sell medieval-like containers and the point is that the modern 'replicas' (shown in the upper left corner) are accurate, as based on old receords and old finds. The picture in the right margin shows original examples found in East Germany.
Some of the text on the page is of interest. It says (among others):
Wooden boxes, at home and in the kitchen (11th - 15th Century).
Wooden objects found many different applications in the middle ages, and were manufactured in several different ways. (I would like to highlight: by turning).
Their shapes remained largely unchanged over several centuries.
Examples.
The larger container was based on finds in Brandenburg (i.e. East Germany) around the 10th-11th Century. Illustrations and finds of containers created and decorated in similar ways may be found up into the 15th Century.
The smaller containers were based on finds in the Augustine monastery of Contance. Also these are attested in similar forms until after 1500.
Often, these containers are shown (drawn) in connection with pharmacies, ointment containers of Saints, or for conservation of herbs and spices.
(end of summarised translation).
The bit I don't understand is about the ointment of/for Saints....
There are some sources listed under 'Quellen' which seem to be manuscripts with relevant illustrations. I have not seen any of them.
They should be of interest.
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| [split] f35v parallels "oak and ivy" |
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Posted by: VViews - 10-02-2016, 05:01 PM - Forum: Imagery
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Hi all,
As I was reading about medieval medical literature I stumbled upon a page about John of Arderne, and a remark made on
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. which I found interesting and relevant to this debate, so am copying it here:
"The text in this section is discussing the properties of dragancia (arum dracunculae) and ivy (hedera); the illustration depicts ivy twined around the distinctive stalk of the dragancia, resulting in the creation of a hybrid plant."
I looked around and in fact, depending on the versions of Arderne's work, the same combo of two plants can appear rather different and sometimes completely fused together, really giving the impression of a hybrid:
I wonder if, in the Voynich, some of the plants might be the result of this type of illustrative practice (a single illustration combining two plants mentioned in the adjoining text paragraphs), rather than depicting grafted plants or other explanations?
![[Image: plantevo.png]](https://voynichviews.files.wordpress.com/2016/02/plantevo.png)
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| Syllabification |
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Posted by: Emma May Smith - 09-02-2016, 07:21 PM - Forum: Analysis of the text
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I'm currently looking at working to break up the Voynich words into syllables (yes, I believe in a linguistic solution) and I wonder what methods have been tried previously, and by whom, to achieve this.
I only know of Stolfi's work, where he considers each word a syllables in itself, but what others are out there?
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| Gurges - a new VMs heraldic ID |
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Posted by: R. Sale - 07-02-2016, 10:04 PM - Forum: Imagery
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The heraldic pattern called gurges is a charge that generally has a spiral design. It is the Latin word for a whirlpool and is typically represented in alternating blue and white, but other colors can be used. There is also an second version of this pattern consisting of multiple concentric circles. Apparently the concentric version either preceded or co-existed with the spiral version very early on, and was then mostly supplanted by the spiral version.
Examples:
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The VMs Zodiac tub patterns also have an example of a concentric, bulls-eye design. My attempted connections to the jason davies site have repeatedly timed out. (Anyone having similar problems?) I think it's on the outer left of Pisces, but you'll find it if you care to. It was one of the more obvious unresolved issues, but now it's been identified. Further evidence that heraldry exists in the VMs. And a further demonstration that heraldry is a valid investigative premise for the identification of tub patterns in the VMs Zodiac, Pisces and Aries pages. The investigation of identity then proceeds through the optical illusion of White Aries and on to the Genoese Gambit.
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| Plants and labels in pharma section |
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Posted by: Oocephalus - 07-02-2016, 02:19 AM - Forum: Voynich Talk
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In the "A and B plants" thread, René mentioned that some plants depicted the herbal section appear to be duplicated in the pharma section. I think someone mentioned some really convincing examples of this in the comments at Stephen Bax's blog a few months ago, but I can't find it. Does someone have a list of such occurrences? I think that, if the label of the plant in the pharma section occurs also on the relevant herbal page, this would be a strong argument for the text being meaningful, especially if the word is rare. Has anyone found such cases?
I've looked at some very rare plant labels (6 or less occurrences in the whole MS) on the pharma pages on voynichese.com to see whether they occur on herbal pages with similar plants. The only such case I found is the word "opchor" (6 occurrences total), which occurs as a label on You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. (first row, third from the left) and also in the text on f13r. However the similarity between the plants is rather vague, and the word also appears on two other herbal pages with very different plants. Somewhat more convincingly, the word "otory" (4 occurrences total) occurs on f102v2 (first row, second from the right)* as a label for an oddly-shaped leaf and on You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. (second row, first from the left) as a label for a plant with similar but somewhat thinner leaves. It may also be interesting that the word "okeoly" (6 occurrences total) occurs as a label on You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. (second row, sixth from the left) as well as in the text immediately above the label.
I think that, although the presence of such cases is an argument for the text being meaningful, their absence would not necessarily refute this. It may be possible to encipher the same plaintext word in different ways, or the language could be highly inflected. For example, in a Latin herbal, the picture of a plant would probably be labeled in the nominative singular (e.g. "convolvulus"), but in the main text the word might occur only in other forms such as "convolvulum" or "convolvuli", which a simple approach like the one I tried would not find.
* I'm using the foliation from voynichese.com here, which seems to be the same as on jasondavies.com. Not sure if this is correct in this case.
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| Astronomy, scripts and canopies collections |
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Posted by: davidjackson - 06-02-2016, 09:20 PM - Forum: Imagery
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Don of Tallahassee asked me to post these files which were too large for him to upload.
They consist of collections of images from medieval manuscripts which he feels share similar traits to images within the VM.
They are:
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You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. - a 2 Mb pdf file
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You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. - a 2.7Mb pdf file
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. - a 2.7Mb pdf file
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. - a 3.2Mb pdf
Click on name to download required file.
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