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| Sphere of Life and Death Cipher? |
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Posted by: Barbrey - 03-08-2020, 01:09 AM - Forum: Analysis of the text
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I have been looking at the Voynich for a month or so now and it has drawn me into reading about a lot of esoteric subjects. I've become particularly swayed by the idea that it incorporates not just medieval astrological material but also medieval magical material in the form of magic circles and incantantations to accompany its medicines or cures. Which was incredibly common so it's not new but was new to me. For instance, 57v is very like magic spheres of the time, which drew on the powers ofholy and planetary names to summon spirits or demons. Moreover the sign of the cross was often used to separate holy names, as we see on the last page. I have observed many other similarities but it poses background rather than the topic of this post.
In the course of the above reading, I came across a sort of magic eightball sphere called the sphere of life and death that physicians would use to divine through onomancy whether a patient would live or die. The usual practice was to take numbers associated with the patient's name, the moon on which he or she got sick, and the weekday number on which he or she got sick. Add up and divide by 30 and if thd remainder number fell below a centre line in the table given, the patient would die, if above, the patient would live.
This sphere was so ubiquitous in medical manuscripts of the time it left me wondering why the VMS, if it was a pharmaceutical/medical manual, which I believe it was, didn't have one.
So then I actually looked at the number and letter matches on the sphere for determining the number for a person's name. And the VM began to make a vague sort of sense if it were written in numerical cipher, often with two characters representing one number and translating back to one letter of the Latin alphabet.
There are problems with this method because the sphere numerical systems can differ slightly from one publisned sphere to another. We also can't at this point be positive what VM character/s represent what number though working backward should work with time and patience. And lastly, not all numbers are represented on the sphere, and moreover one number might stand for more than one letter.
But it was this last problem that got me somewhat excited because it helps make sense of some anomalies I noticed in the Voynich patterns. For instance, the letter that looks like a was often folliwed by what JK calls minims. They did not seem to work properly as numbers. But in the sphere of life, where a is represented by iii or 3, the number 3 also represents 3 other letters - most commonly b, f and z (or v\u).
So was the VM character a the number 3 and therefore also an a, and the minims were possibly subsets of 3 to indicate another variable of 3 - a was a, ai was b, aii was f and aiii was z?
There were two other groupings like this. The number 15 stood for e, i, n and sometimes k. And the number 6 stood for h, y and one or two more I can't remember - don't have it in front of me.
I had already been looking at the vM c groups as possibly numbers, particularly c as 2 or 5. If 5, then the c-c with a colophon on top could be 15, representing e, a different colophon i and a different one n. Something like that anyway!
As for the 6 group, I wondered if this was where the ligatured characters came in.
That's about as far as I've gotten! But the sphere was a standard, often ubiquitous, feature in many of these manuscripts - it wouldn't be totally fanciful if it was being used as a cipher key with some adjustments.
Before I go any further working on this, has anyone you guys know of already looked at this? And do you think it a waste of time or impossible? You can look up the sphere and info about it just by googling The Sphere of Life and Death.
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| Solve the Voynich to save the world |
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Posted by: Koen G - 02-08-2020, 10:17 AM - Forum: Voynich Talk
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A hypothetical scenario:
The president (you know, the president) had a dream that the Voynich manuscript must be solved within a year, or the world will be destroyed. He learns that you are, like, the world's greatest expert on this subject, so he gives you a call: you get unlimited resources and complete authority. Everybody has to do what you say, as long as it is with the purpose of discovering the truth about the manuscript. The only limitation is that you cannot perform destructive tests on the MS itself.
What do you do?
Who do you contact? What kind of people do you look for and which assignments do you give them?
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| Colettine Poor Clares |
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Posted by: R. Sale - 29-07-2020, 08:21 PM - Forum: Imagery
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Investigations of certain VMs illustrations have produced connections with particular historical sources such as artistic images and records of actual events, along with other documents. In several individual lines of investigation, the connections are grounded to sources with good historical provenance. Taken in summation, the details of historical provenance, from Melusine to the Golden Fleece, either imply or strongly suggest a connection to the historical Duchy of Burgundy in a period after 1430.
Investigation of the VMs rainbows in You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. is discussion of long standing. Rainbows can be connected to anything from T. Rex to a '57 Cadillac, not to overlook Noah's arc, though the best suggestion was the medieval artistic use of a double rainbow as a divine throne. However, the VMs throne is empty. Is the missing occupant Christian of Classical? The evidence is insufficient.
Now, limit the investigation to Burgundy in the time after 1430 and what can be found? Nothing - should be the expected result, but history provides information about La sainte Hostie de Dijon. Quite a significant historical event at the time, The throne is a rainbow.
Every VMs investigator has wondered about the 'nymphs'. Are they personifications of this or that? Are historical or mythical characters hidden among them? Is that Lady Bertilak? What if the prior conditions [Burgundy post 1430) are taken into account?
Well, you read the title, here they are.
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And here is Colette of Corbie.
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They clearly were in the Duchy of Burgundy at the time selected. Colette died in 1447. They were supported by Philip the Good and his wife, Isabella. In the KBR library of Philip the Good, there are two books titled, Vie de soeur Colette, authored by Pierre De Vaux, produced about 1460 in Flanders. [ms. 6048 and ms. 10988; the second has a couple illustrations.]
This is not to say that there was a connection, real or imaginary, between these religious women and the VMs nymphs. However, this is intended to open a window to historical facts and events which were occurring at that time.
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| A Florentine grain dealer's ledger |
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Posted by: RenegadeHealer - 29-07-2020, 07:41 PM - Forum: Codicology and Paleography
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Citation: Florentine Grain Dealer Account Book, 1466-1524. (SPC) MSS BH 005 COCH
Inspired by Helmut's comment about You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view., I decided to do a deep dive into Google Images looking for medieval ledgers and trade books. I'm sure if I understood Italian that would be a big help, but somehow I still imagine I wouldn't be able to reliably transcribe this page into normal Roman letters and Arabic numerals. Especially the last line. Is this just my modern eye not used to a very different but commonly readable type of medieval script, or is this the intentional use of obfuscation to keep sensitive information private?
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| On purpose |
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Posted by: Mark Knowles - 29-07-2020, 05:12 PM - Forum: Voynich Talk
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I read people often write about what the purpose of the Voynich manuscript was. Why did the author write it? What function did it serve?
I seems to be a singular document, so to some people there must have been a singular purpose.
It is natural to view things in very functional terms. However in our own lives all the things we do are not governed by quite so functional goals.
Lots of people do things for rather nebulous reasons. If we ask why someone is researching the Voynich then they might answer, because they enjoy it. Of course, enjoyment could be said to be some kind of functional goal, neurologically speaking.
I suppose I wonder if the author(s) wrote the manuscript in whole or in part out of enjoyment, as a puzzle, a challenge or just an entertaining pastime.
Of course there likely was more than one motive for writing it, but I don't see why we should not consider pure pleasure as a significant motivating factor.
So many of the things we do are done out of pleasure.
Why are you eating pasta for dinner? Because I like it.
Why are you going to the theatre? Because I enjoy it.
Why are you reading that detective novel? Because it entertains me.
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| Masterpiece? |
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Posted by: Koen G - 27-07-2020, 11:05 PM - Forum: Voynich Talk
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I was browsing around and came across this quote on Claus Schmeh's site You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. :
Quote:[Rene] could also imagine that the manuscript is someone’s masterpiece, to be used to enter one of the secret societies that existed at the time.
It's the first time I remember hearing of this practice. Was this done in the early 15th century? What kind of societies would we be talking about? Or is this purely hypothetical since they would have been secret?
I find this idea intriguing but know very little about it.
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| What did the nymph on the mid-left edge of f80v originally have in her hand? |
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Posted by: RenegadeHealer - 25-07-2020, 12:04 AM - Forum: Imagery
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I couldn't find a previous discussion on this.
It looks like some written characters, or a rough initial sketch of an object to be held in her hand, was originally planned for this picture, and then abandoned. Maybe partially erased.
I almost put this thread in Marginalia, which didn't feel quite right. When I looked close and long enough, I was less and less sure this was a written word in any script or language.
I'm also open to the possibility that this is just a stain that occurred in a weird location.
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| Trying to see examples of Johannes Hartlieb's handwriting |
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Posted by: MichelleL11 - 19-07-2020, 06:48 PM - Forum: Codicology and Paleography
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Although I greatly respect the support for the view that Johannes Hartlieb is a bit too late and probably "too famous" (what would be the chances?) to be the VM author, I did want to see his handwriting, if possible.
As kindly provided by Helmut Winkler in this thread:
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exemplars of his handwriting are available in Frank Furbeth's book, Johannes Hartlieb, Untersuchungen zu Leben und Werk, specifically page 280.
But I've either read too much of it or that specific page is somehow blocked from me. I even tried logging in with another computer but I guess the address is the same(?) so I was similarly blocked.
Direct link: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
If someone could retrieve that page and post it, I'd be really grateful.
I also note that there may be the same handwriting samples at Karl Drescher, "Johann Hartlieb" Eurphorion vol (26 or maybe 25,the cites are inconsistent) (1924) at page 348 but this seems less likely to be available -- probably because of copyright, or maybe just chance, I've only found older volumes of this German literary magazine available online.
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| VMs f57v: Subtle patterns |
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Posted by: R. Sale - 19-07-2020, 05:57 PM - Forum: Imagery
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The 4 x 17 symbol sequence in the penultimate outer band of text has some subtle patterns if the first five symbols are interpreted according to common and traditional methods.
The symbols, given the EVA designations o, l, d, r, v, need to be seen in their Voynichese representations. First of all there are three examples of potential visual interpretation supported by structural placement.
Using medieval numerical symbols of the forms found on Typus Arithmetica, the looping "l' of the second symbol is a numeral "4" and the fifth symbol "v" (actually an inverted "v") matches the numeral "7". The placement of these symbols, two spaces apart is the proper structure in the numerical sequence.
Similarly, using the Greek alphabet, the fifth symbol is the letter "lambda" and the first symbol is the letter "omicron". Here again, the placement is correct. Greek can be read in both directions. Structure helps to confirm interpretation. There is no question about the structure.
Thirdly, "v" is a letter in the Roman alphabet. In this case it is inverted. The same symbol is also used in the Roman Numeral system to represent "5". It is numeral "5" in position five - inverted. Position matches interpretation.
Greek was also an alpha-numeric system, so that all three interpretations could be numerical.
The sixth symbol in the 4 x 17 sequence is a quincunx. The quincunx is used in astrology to represent a relationship between the primary sign and the fifth sign following. That relationship, as I see it set forth, is one of conflict, blockade, and challenge, suggesting a reexamining and rethinking of the situation.
When the path of medieval numerical interpretation is blocked by the quincunx, it can return via the Greek system and then possibly proceed further using the Roman system (numerals or alphabet) - potentially 'inverted' - whatever that might mean. (Not sure how that works out on paper, but it seems interesting.)
The quincunx as a coin has a numerical value of 5/12. In the VMs Zodiac sequence, the first five houses are the ones containing pairs or were made to be pairs.
The patterns are subtle, but real; meaningful is another question. Further evaluation will help to make that determination.
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![[Image: 63e1d8_4792a55b3755d9abccdde54250907455.webp]](https://static.wixstatic.com/media/63e1d8_4792a55b3755d9abccdde54250907455.jpg/v1/fill/w_406,h_603,al_c,q_90,usm_0.66_1.00_0.01/63e1d8_4792a55b3755d9abccdde54250907455.webp)
![[Image: 63e1d8_11749bc2e8fdfb81182a13bda0b6903f.webp]](https://static.wixstatic.com/media/63e1d8_11749bc2e8fdfb81182a13bda0b6903f.jpg/v1/fill/w_381,h_620,al_c,q_90,usm_0.66_1.00_0.01/63e1d8_11749bc2e8fdfb81182a13bda0b6903f.webp)