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| To what extent should the translation respect the grammar? |
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Posted by: Ruby Novacna - 03-05-2022, 01:18 PM - Forum: Analysis of the text
- Replies (56)
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One of the reasons why the various translations of Voynich were not accepted was that they did not respect the grammar of the proposed language.
This morning I am leafing through the manuscript, listening to a song by Vianney, whose refrain is :
If me to love you, me to hurt
if me to love you
when me to love you, me to hurt
when me to love you. (I hope my translation is close to the moose)
If this text is discovered in a few centuries by cryptologists, what will be their reaction, bad translation, coded message, misidentified language?
What might have been the manuscript author's demands on his grammar?
Are there any known manuscripts in which the grammar is not respected at all?
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| Scribe counting |
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Posted by: RobGea - 02-05-2022, 07:58 PM - Forum: Analysis of the text
- Replies (2)
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Here are the numbers and folios, i get from Lisa Fagin Davis' "How Many Glyphs and How Many Scribes?" paper.
If someone could check this data, that would be great. (see Note )
Summary
Scribe_1: 113 pages :: Herbal, Pharma, 57v(circular text),
Scribe_2: 046 pages :: Herbal, Balneo, rose dorse, [12 lines on f115r]
Scribe_3: 033 pages :: Herbal, Recipes, (bifolia 58/65 and 94/95)
Scribe_4: 027 pages :: Cosmo (circular foldouts and astrological diagrams), Rosette
Scribe_5: 007 pages :: Herbal (bifolia 41/48) , bifolia 57/66 [except for 57v])
Scribe_1:
Code: ['f1r', 'f1v', 'f2r', 'f2v', 'f3r', 'f3v', 'f4r', 'f4v', 'f5r', 'f5v', 'f6r', 'f6v', 'f7r', 'f7v', 'f8r', 'f8v', 'f9r', 'f9v', 'f10r', 'f10v', 'f11r', 'f11v', 'f13r', 'f13v', 'f14r', 'f14v', 'f15r', 'f15v', 'f16r', 'f16v', 'f17r', 'f17v', 'f18r', 'f18v', 'f19r', 'f19v', 'f20r', 'f20v', 'f21r', 'f21v', 'f22r', 'f22v', 'f23r', 'f23v', 'f24r', 'f24v', 'f25r', 'f25v', 'f27r', 'f27v', 'f28r', 'f28v', 'f29r', 'f29v', 'f30r', 'f30v', 'f32r', 'f32v', 'f35r', 'f35v', 'f36r', 'f36v', 'f37r', 'f37v', 'f38r', 'f38v', 'f42r', 'f42v', 'f44r', 'f44v', 'f45r', 'f45v', 'f47r', 'f47v', 'f49r', 'f49v', 'f51r', 'f51v', 'f52r', 'f52v', 'f53r', 'f53v', 'f54r', 'f54v', 'f56r', 'f56v', 'f57v', 'f87r', 'f87v', 'f88r', 'f88v', 'f89r1', 'f89r2', 'f89v2', 'f89v1', 'f90r1', 'f90r2', 'f90v2', 'f90v1', 'f93r', 'f93v', 'f96r', 'f96v', 'f99r', 'f99v', 'f100r', 'f100v', 'f101r', 'f101v', 'f102r1', 'f102r2', 'f102v2', 'f102v1']
Scribe_2:
Code: ['f26r', 'f26v', 'f31r', 'f31v', 'f33r', 'f33v', 'f34r', 'f34v', 'f39r', 'f39v', 'f40r', 'f40v', 'f43r', 'f43v', 'f46r', 'f46v', 'f50r', 'f50v', 'f55r', 'f55v', 'f75r', 'f75v', 'f76r', 'f76v', 'f77r', 'f77v', 'f78r', 'f78v', 'f79r', 'f79v', 'f80r', 'f80v', 'f81r', 'f81v', 'f82r', 'f82v', 'f83r', 'f83v', 'f84r', 'f84v', 'f85r1', 'f85r2', 'f86v4', 'f86v6', 'f86v5', 'f86v3']
Scribe_3:
Code: ['f58r', 'f58v', 'f65r', 'f65v', 'f94r', 'f94v', 'f95r1', 'f95r2', 'f95v2', 'f95v1', 'f103r', 'f103v', 'f104r', 'f104v', 'f105r', 'f105v', 'f106r', 'f106v', 'f107r', 'f107v', 'f108r', 'f108v', 'f111r', 'f111v', 'f112r', 'f112v', 'f113r', 'f113v', 'f114r', 'f114v', 'f115r', 'f115v', 'f116r']
Scribe_4:
Code: ['f67r1', 'f67r2', 'f67v2', 'f67v1', 'f68r1', 'f68r2', 'f68r3', 'f68v3', 'f68v2', 'f68v1', 'f69r', 'f69v', 'f70r1', 'f70r2', 'f70v2', 'f70v1', 'f71r', 'f71v', 'f72r1', 'f72r2', 'f72r3', 'f72v3', 'f72v2', 'f72v1', 'f73r', 'f73v', 'fRos']
Scribe_5:
Code: ['f41r', 'f41v', 'f48r', 'f48v', 'f57r', 'f66r', 'f66v']
Note:
A possible cause for confusion is the pharma folios viz:
f101r and You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
f101v1- foldout sometimes classed as 2 folios, sometimes just one You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. ie TT-ivtff-0a
Here i have ['f101r', 'f101v' ] and not counted 'f101r2' --Is that an error or not...discuss 
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| Cardan grille or substitution cipher |
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Posted by: Ruby Novacna - 01-05-2022, 03:05 PM - Forum: Analysis of the text
- Replies (10)
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I have just reread Rene's article about the Cardan grille applied to the manuscript and I have a question: is substitution cipher contrary to the idea of the grille or rather complementary?
Is it necessary to decipher the text first, with good grammar or not, and then apply a grid to discover a particular message?
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| Demystifying the Voynich manuscript using computational linguistic techniques |
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Posted by: Torsten - 28-04-2022, 07:06 PM - Forum: News
- Replies (8)
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There is a new paper published about the VMS: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
The author is Kevin Farrugia from the University of Malta.
The paper describes an experiment that takes the proposed classification by Dr Lisa Fagin Davis as ground truth and puts it to the test. The text is split into an equal number of pages per scribe; taking into consideration three of the five scribes due to scribes 4 and 5 having much less data.
Farrugia describes his results as:
Quote:In both experiments, with trigrams and bigrams, all classifiers have very high F1 scores for scribe 1. ... This information is reflected in the confusion matrices in which, with the help of the heatmap, it is easy to see that pages labelled as scribe 1 in the ground truth are rarely classified as the other two scribes. The tendency among the classifiers is to classify pages labelled as scribe 2 to be scribe 3, and vice-versa.
Not surprisingly the paper lists "the trigram 'edy' and the bigram 'ed'" as criteria to distinguish between scribe 1 and scribe 2/3 (or between Currier A and Currier B).
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| Tsakonika |
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Posted by: Ruby Novacna - 28-04-2022, 12:29 PM - Forum: Analysis of the text
- Replies (8)
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In one of my blog posts I talked about my "discovery" of the Greek dialect You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.. This dialect, a descendant of Lakonian, has the particularity of having several hushing sibilants sounds that do not exist in ancient Greek and of using several digraphs to transcribe them. All this reminded me sh, dsh, dch, pch, fch etc. of the Voynich text.
I even found an online dictionary, that of M. Deffner with four missing pages.
Do you know of any links to documents on Tsakonika, dictionaries, grammar etc?
Has anyone explored this avenue before?
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| Sidereal connections: feminine |
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Posted by: R. Sale - 27-04-2022, 08:03 PM - Forum: Astrology & Astronomy
- Replies (1)
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In looking for masculine connections to the stars, it was found that there are only a few stars [Castor, Pollux, Arcturus, Antares] that are named for 'characters' that are male. So, all the rest of the star personifications in the VMs illustrations should be female, right, because that is what the VMs depicts.
So, who are these stellar nymphs in each of the VMs Zodiac houses? Are there a lot of stars that are named after any female 'characters?' For starters, there are the Pleiades, the 'Seven Sisters' asterism. They are "portrayed" as women. But there seems to be an absence of other, stellar examples named for females. Are there other examples?
The nymphs of the VMs zodiac sequence, if they have no individual identity, they are all generic 'stellas.' And if they are not generic, how are they identified? By their hats, by their clothing, by their tubs, not by their appearance.
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![[Image: image.jpg?ref=f84v&q=f84v-284-548-1040-549]](https://voynich.ninja/extractor/image.jpg?ref=f84v&q=f84v-284-548-1040-549)
![[Image: 5Xj3BAs.jpg]](https://i.imgur.com/5Xj3BAs.jpg)