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Welcome, Guest You have to register before you can post on our site. Username/Email:    Password    Remember me Search Forums (Advanced Search) Online Users There are currently 702 online users. » 7 Member(s) | 691 Guest(s) Applebot, Baidu, Bing, Google, Aga Tentakulus, dashstofsk, Fabrizio Salani, JoJo_Jost Latest Threads Rauwolf & Clusius & Gessn... Forum: Provenance & history Last Post: ReneZ 31 minutes ago » Replies: 1 » Views: 49 f17r multispectral images Forum: Marginalia Last Post: stopsquark 1 hour ago » Replies: 115 » Views: 44,436 My pet theory Forum: Theories & Solutions Last Post: JoJo_Jost 2 hours ago » Replies: 6 » Views: 249 Voynich Zoom CFP Forum: News Last Post: asteckley 6 hours ago » Replies: 45 » Views: 3,779 About the generation of s... Forum: Analysis of the text Last Post: ReneZ 8 hours ago » Replies: 4 » Views: 142 Repetition of words Forum: Voynich Talk Last Post: ReneZ 8 hours ago » Replies: 68 » Views: 11,779 Huth's reading of f116v: ... Forum: Marginalia Last Post: JoJo_Jost Yesterday, 07:00 PM » Replies: 22 » Views: 500 Voynich is encrypted ENOC... Forum: Theories & Solutions Last Post: Radim Dobeš Yesterday, 04:16 PM » Replies: 64 » Views: 4,638 Thomas Ernst Handwriting ... Forum: News Last Post: BessAgritianin Yesterday, 03:37 PM » Replies: 13 » Views: 1,092 The Book Switch Theory Forum: Theories & Solutions Last Post: Jorge_Stolfi Yesterday, 01:28 PM » Replies: 137 » Views: 7,185

I purchased a high quality facsimile from Manuscriptum Posted by: Odd_Honey_WV - 21-10-2022, 12:57 AM - Forum: Voynich Talk - Replies (11) Hello everyone, I am a new member to the forum and I decided to join because I decided to purchase one of the more high-end facsimiles of the Voynich manuscript and wanted to show it off for the public record. I did see some talk about the Manuscriptum facsimile from searching the site but from what I've seen it doesn't seem anyone here has one, and Google only wants to show off the much more expensive Siloe version, so I figured a post was in order. I had initially hoped to snag a Siloe facsimile; I suppose I'm new to the realm of book collecting as it hadn't occurred to me that was the sort of thing you could even get. I had already purchased the very reasonably priced Clemens photo facsimile, but the idea of having something that true to life piqued my interest. I reached out and to my dismay was quoted an asking price of nearly $10,000. But, as fortune would have it, there was another option. You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. This is the one I have purchased, for $3,000 USD. That includes both shipping to the US and taxes. Still quite a lot for a book but it was the best deal I was going to get for something like this so I jumped on it. And today Ill be showing it off and giving a review. I should state upfront that I am complete novice when it comes to this sort of thing; this is the first and only facsimile I own, so there is a lot that I'm not going to know or even be aware of, and feel free to ask my anything you are curious about that I skip over. The book itself came with a decorative box with a compass in it for some reason. It smelled strongly of finish, and while of decent quality there were a few spots where the wood was splintering off. Overall I would say the build quality is good. Inside were a pair of white gloves (that i had already put on for the taking of the next pictures), a folder with a certificate of authenticity, and the manuscript wrapped in a numbered leather sheet with a wax seal. The straps are raw hide (I think) and are tied in the back , so i was able to remove the seal without breaking it and keep it in the folder with the certificate. And now for the main attraction. Lets start with points where I'm pretty sure they deviate from the original. This book is a hard back (or at least feels like one), whereas I think the original MS was limp vellum. And it has those tie strings that the Siloe facsimile also saw fit to include, not sure why; I haven't seen anything saying the original MS had them. I know the real manuscript doesn't retain its original binding, maybe this is more normal for the time when it would have been produced? The website says the cover is bound in natural calf parchment and sewn with cotton threads, which as far as I know is true and correct to the original. The pages are printed on Fedrigoni Pergamenata, a type of paper that superficially simulates vellum. I don't know what vellum feels like, especially 600 year old vellum like in the original MS, but I purchased some modern vellum from etsy and the pages are pretty similar. Not exactly but close enough for layman like myself. The book is stiff, it doesn't lay open on its own and sometimes feels like it doesn't want to open at all. I have thumbed through it a couple times in its entirety at this point and have tried to gently open it to a certain extend while doing so, trying not to accidentally damage it. The book simulates the damage to the original MS fairly well. Most of it in done through printing, like the water stains and discolorations, but they have taken the time to cut the shapes of some of the more irregular pages (by hand with a scalpel) and include holes and sutures present in some of the pages (without the thread, tho). And of course the fold outs are present. Not much to say on those that hasn't all ready, other than that the rosette is a bit of a struggle with the pages being stiff, and you can see that one middle corner that isn't bending quite right. I'm probably not going to be opening it regularly. And finally, here is the certificate with a little more info. Thank you all so much for reading, and if you have any questions please comment below and I'll be sure to answer.   Oswald von Wolkenstein Posted by: R. Sale - 19-10-2022, 11:02 PM - Forum: Voynich Talk - No Replies The biography of Oswald von Wolkenstein is an interesting connection of heraldry and history. Initially it was the name and the heraldry. Perhaps there is a preferred interpretation, but it seemingly ‘translates’ into “Cloudstone”. And it is further represented in the heraldic insignia with the use of a ‘nebuly’ line, having a blazon such as: Per bend nebuly, argent et gules. White on top and red below. The heraldic shield is included in the last two images. You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.   The heraldic terms, ‘nebuly’ and ‘gewolkt’, are both derived from references to clouds and mists. The use of this pattern is surely based on heraldic canting. At least it reveals the first part of the family surname. It indicates that the use of this interpretation would be well-known in the “heraldic community”.   In the early examples of the Wolkenstein heraldic insignia, the nebuly line is a ‘plain’ line, in contrast to a later example where the individual crests and troughs of the nebuly line have been given the “scallop-shell treatment”. This is a splendid artistic technique by which an extended nebuly line can be made to look like a line of fluffy, scallop-shelled clouds. Cloud bands or Wolkenbands are historically significant and relevant to several VMs investigations. The cloud band in the VMs central rosette is an example of the “scallop-shell treatment”. A series of bumps, like a series of arches, either across the top and/or bottom of the nebuly line, OR up, and down the whole length of each individual crest and trough. You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.   This technique, to run a single line of arches all along the nebuly line, has a problem in that it reverses between one side of the nebuly line and the other. Crests that appear rounded on one side leave troughs that are pointy on the other side.  Invected on the top side, engrailed on the bottom. This was rejected in art, in heraldry and in the VMs examples. Instead, the orientation is reversed for each trough to maintain the points inward, scallop-shell pattern. It seems to be the standard practice, which the VMs follows.   So, if scalloped, invected lines are used in artistry, and heraldry, what about the occurrence of engrailed lines in heraldry and the VMs. Though any use of the engrailed or invected line  is uncommon, the engrailed cross, with points out, is predominant. Otherwise, it occurs in a border or as a bend, but that seems to be the limit of usage in the heraldic texts of the 15th century. What the VMs does in the tub patterns of the three Pisces and Aries pages provides examples of engrailed lines running horizontally across the pattern. While the use of such a pattern is valid, there don’t yet seem to be any relevant chronological examples.   That’s the thing about VMs investigation, every bit of hopeful inquiry leads directly to a wall. Nebuly lines and invected lines are fine in cloud bands and cosmic boundaries, but the VMs use of engrailed lines is all messed up, providing examples of things that did not exist at the time. How does that happen – that the valid and the flawed are combined? Are any of these VMs interpretations valid? Do VMs illustrations contain factual information or nothing more that random markings?   On three pages, the VMs presents several examples of engrailed lines running horizontally across different tub patterns, The lines go back and forth, not up and down or round and round. The devil is always in the details. If they went up and down, that’s probably nothing. But if they went round and round, that’s definitely something. An engrailed border distinguishes the heraldic insignia of the Duke of Berry, who is previously tied to the provenance of BNF Fr. 565 and the investigation of VMs cosmic structure.   How do you prefer to abbreviate "Voynich Manuscript" Posted by: Koen G - 14-10-2022, 07:17 AM - Forum: Voynich Talk - Replies (19) Out of habit, I always write "VM", but I noticed most people seem to prefer "VMS". This is just a quick poll to check. It's about what you use, not what you think might be the "best" or most correct.   Voynich Specialisation Posted by: Mark Knowles - 08-10-2022, 10:50 AM - Forum: Voynich Talk - Replies (11) One thing that I have felt problematic for some time is the lack of specialisation of most people undertaking Voynich research. It seems to me that most people flit from topic to topic, never spending long enough on each topic to make real progress. One day they will be making some statistical analysis of the text and the next day they will be comparing plant images from a herbal of the time with the Voynich and the following day they will theorising about the Rosettes folio and so on. I think what will help push Voynich research forward is if individuals select a topic to pursue for some time until they can be said to have really advanced our understanding of the topic. Some people may not find that as "fun" as jumping around topics, but it is likely to be more productive. The Voynich does not need lots of good generalists, but rather a variety of specialists in different aspects of the manuscript with of course some collaboration between them. I have, myself, adopted that approach, so I am not advocating other people do something that I am not doing myself. There are many subjects relating to the Voynich manuscript that I have never investigated at all and only some which I have researched to some degree. My chief specialism is cryptography from the early 15th century. Though I have also spent some time looking at maps of the period and some time matching botanical pictures to herbal pictures and a bit of time thinking about labels as well as time looking at my own theory. Nevertheless I have barely touched the other aspects of the Voynich, though I have read up and thought about the statistical properties. I know nothing of the astrological drawings, almost nothing of the astronomical drawings, very little about the late history of the manuscript, almost nothing about the marginalia, not much about herbals of the time and so on. Now there are some people who appear to have specialised in certain aspects of Voynich; my thoughts turn to Lisa Fagin Davis and Claire Bowern. It also concerns me that when researching the Voynich most people confine themselves only to documents they can find online. This leaves out a large quantity of archival material from their research. I admit that tracking down archival material can be hard work and at times it can cost money, but without doing this Voynich research is sadly limited. I see a new era of progress in Voynich research being advanced by a group of specialists in different aspects of the manuscript sharing their discoveries between them.   Heraldic pattern: Bendy Posted by: R. Sale - 04-10-2022, 09:28 PM - Forum: Imagery - No Replies In the investigation of Fieschi heraldry in relation to VMs White Aries, it soon becomes apparent that there is still a fair amount of confusion and misrepresentation regarding the details of this heraldic pattern. The Fieschi blazon is: Bendy, argent et azur. So, it's stripes are 'silver and blue' or blue and white. Which color goes first, and what does the mean in the actual representation? You will see examples in both variations - where the blue stripes and the white stripes are reversed. Which one is correct? The problem of representation is inherent in the image system itself, being based on the division of the topline of the insignia into *three* different bands. The solution is a version that divides the topline into *four* as seen at the tomb of Pope Adrian V in Viterbo. You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. This pattern fulfills both the general rule that the primary/first-named tincture should occupy the uppermost, dexter position. And secondly, a specific rule, for the bendy pattern, that the small slice in the lower left side is the primary tincture and the last little triangle in the opposite corner is the secondary tincture, so that it would be correct when rotated to vertical. This pattern clearly conforms to both of those heraldic rules. The coincidence is that this is the tomb of Ottobuono Fieschi, who was made a cardinal (1251) by his uncle Sinibaldo Fieschi (Pope Innocent IV), who had originated the tradition of the cardinal's red galero - as depicted on VMs White Aries. The historic combination of these two specific heraldic elements is unique. And while obscure to many these days, it was known and used by the VMs artist. How To Read The Voynich Manuscript Posted by: techilah@gmail.com - 03-10-2022, 04:03 AM - Forum: Theories & Solutions - Replies (8) Hey everyone. I believe I have figured out how to read the voynich manuscript. It uses numeronyms. Now if you notice on many pages of the voynich manuscript, numbers are combined with words. For example ccc89. There is no such thing as a language where words are combined with numbers. So I've been looking around and found out the voynich uses a form of abbreviation called numeronyms. In numeronyms, words are abbreviated with numbers to spell out a word. And you put the number together with the letter to pronounce it. In this case it is ccc89. Which would spell out the word cyan or kyan. The 9 begins with an n. Kyanos is ancient Greek for dark blue. In this case its cyanide poison. The green baths in the voynich might be poison. It may have always known how to make prussian blue from cyanide. Besides for it being discovered in the 1700s. Here's another numeronym I have found. Notice that on many voynich plant pages that cc08 is written. The cc08 in voynich stands for cat. The eight is the at sound.  Does anyone here know of any medeival books that use abbreviations like numeronyms from around the time of the voynich?   The Voynicheroes - a short story Posted by: Hermes777 - 03-10-2022, 03:10 AM - Forum: Voynich Talk - Replies (3) A new short story on a Voynich theme: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.   Voynichese Verifier Posted by: RobGea - 27-09-2022, 07:15 PM - Forum: Voynich Talk - Replies (18) If some computer program were created, call it the 'Voynichese Verifier' It would quantify how much some text was comparable to voynichese[#1]. what would be the minmum requirements for the code to check ? -check all words against voynichese dictionary -entropy levels What else? Note#1 Obviously it would not be 100% as voynichese is an unknown but it would be consistent and work as a rough guide For instance, if you wanted to compare the output of Timm&Schinners 'self-citation' method Vs Mike Roes generic word.   Today (9/26/22) -- The World in Maps Posted by: MichelleL11 - 26-09-2022, 03:55 PM - Forum: News - Replies (3) You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. 4PM EST Ray Clemens Whatever you think the Rosettes might be, it's worth learning more about World Maps and their role in medieval life.  Wanted to make sure the group heard about TODAY's webinar.   Is the Voynich Manuscript an Elaborate Medieval Hoax? Posted by: Torsten - 24-09-2022, 04:13 AM - Forum: News - Replies (49) Justin Sledge published a You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. about the Voynich manuscript: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. In his video Sledge argues "that recent statistical, informational and cryptological analysis is increasingly pointing in the direction of the hoax hypothesis." First Previous Next Last