The Voynich Ninja

(06-09-2026, 04:31 PM)nablator Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Your translator is messier (sloppier?) than most

[attachment=17552]
He really thinks so.

(06-09-2026, 04:17 PM)Ruby Novacna Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.what do you define as flexible or inflexible;

Flexibility for me is something that I mentioned earlier. ol together are one letter for some reason, although I can clearly see that the o and l parts are not connected.

(06-09-2026, 04:17 PM)Ruby Novacna Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.why do you want to replace `ar`;

Matching ar = s will not give me the results I need. More precisely, it will, but not always. To get what I want, I will have to enter the second match ar = the desired letter.
Again, the analogy with ol is that it will give you more desired results.

(06-09-2026, 04:17 PM)Ruby Novacna Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.otherwise, what exactly would it contradict?

Because the result is a contradictory model, where one letter will be assigned 10 values.

(06-09-2026, 04:17 PM)Ruby Novacna Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Which language doesn't have this (which?) restriction?

I didn't mean languages, but language theories. The freedom of transliteration is that one letter can have different meanings in different places. That is, freely fitting the word from the VMS to the desired one.

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(06-09-2026, 04:31 PM)nablator Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Google translate translates it as helianthus... technically correct but:

It's strange that you took this example seriously. It's contradictory in itself, and there's no need to remember where the sunflower grows

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

(06-09-2026, 08:28 PM)Ruby Novacna Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

All right. It's a Helianthus. No one is arguing with this.
But if it wasn't for Messier, the example wouldn't have happened... 
My goal was to show an incorrect translation. I used the wrong option right away, without looking back, as I was picking up the letter matches without looking back.

(06-09-2026, 08:30 PM)ololololo Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

(06-09-2026, 08:28 PM)Ruby Novacna Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

All right. It's a Helianthus. No one is arguing with this.
But if it wasn't for Messier, the example wouldn't have happened... 
My goal was to show an incorrect translation. I used the wrong option right away, without looking back, as I was picking up the letter matches without looking back.

I'm not interested in sunflowers, I'm interested in good tools and I think this site is a good tool.

Words qolch-
In this post I will examine eight words beginning with qolch-:

1. qolchedar (1),
   
2. qolchedy (11),
   
3. qolcheedy (2),
   
4. qolcheey (2),
   
5. qolcheol (2),
   
6. qolcheor (1),
   
7. qolchey (11),
   
8. qolchy (2).
   

I read qolch- as dak- and I consider that all these words are related and come from the verb δάκνω – to bite:

1. qolchy – dak9 – δάκος – animal of which the bite is dangerous, noxious beast; bite, sting;
   
2. qolcheor/ qolchey/ qolcheey – dakior/ -i9/ -u9 – δάκεος, gen of δάκος;
   
3. qolcheol – dakioi(a) – δάκεᾰ/ δάκεα, pl nom/ acc of δάκος or δάκια – small bird or animal (Hesychius);
   
4. qolchedy/ qolcheedy – daki89/ -u89 – δακέτης (Byz) – the biting beasts, venomous serpents or δάκετος – bite, sting;
   
5. qolchedar – daki8ar – δακέτας (Byz), acc pl of δακέτης.
   

Word podkor
For the single word podkor of 106v.40 I had already proposed the reading You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view..

This is a rare syncopated form of the word ποτνιος*, masculine, also rare, from πότνια, ἡ, the feminine adjective, meaning august, holy, sacred, venerable, epithet of goddesses; also used when speaking of an elderly woman; by extension when speaking of personified things such as the earth, the night, modesty, etc.
However, if we read k EVA as m, the word would be πότμος – that which befalls one, lot, destiny; in Homer always of evil destiny, especially of death of the killer. After Homer without a sense of evil, fate, destiny, in general, also personified Destiny.
If podkor is ποτνος, should it be read together with the following word, ποτνος otedy – august otedy?
And if podkor is πότμος, is it linked, on the contrary, to the preceding word, tcheodar πότμος – the destiny of tcheodar?

* Thomas Morell, Thesaurus Graecae poeseōs,… 1762

Words ochd-
Two words in the manuscript begin with ochd-: ochdy of f24v.15 and ochdor of the spiral of a rosette <fRos.36,@Cc>.

These words can be related and transcribe several Greek words.
Word ochdor :

• ὄγδοος, η, ον – eighth;
  
• ὄχθος, ὁ – eminence, bank, hill; tomb, mound; tubercle in leprosy; tubercle on plants.
  

Word ochdy :

• ὄγδοος ;
  
• ὀκτάς, ἡ – the number eight; body of eight men;
  
• ὄχθος ;
  
• ὄχθη, ἡ – older form of ὄχθος, any height or rising ground, natural or artificial, bank, dyke by the side of a river.
  

Words fched-, pched-, pcheed-.
In this post I will examine 16 words, 5 starting with fched-, 9 with pched-, 2 with pcheed-, all from the B language:

1. fchedey (1),
   
2. fchedol (1),
   
3. fchedy (5),
   
4. fchedypaiin (1),
   
5. fchedy[r: s]/ fchedys (1),
   
6. pchedaiin (4),
   
7. pchedain (2),
   
8. pchedairs (1),
   
9. pchedal (2),
   
10. pchedar (11),
    
11. pchedchdy (1),
    
12. pchedeey (1),
    
13. pchedey (1),
    
14. pchedy (34),
    
15. pcheed.rar (1),
    
16. pcheedy (1).
    

My first proposals for four of these words, You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view., pchedar, pchedal, and pchedaiin, were already published a few years ago.
The words pchedy and fchedy can transcribe more than ten Greek and Latin words:

1. φιδός= φειδος – sparing, thrifty;
   
2. φίτης (Byz) = φύτης = φῖτυς – begetter, father; φίτης (ὄφις, ὀφίτης, φίτης= νόσος τοῦ δέρματος τῶν παίδων, εἶδος ἕρπητος) – skin disease of children, a kind of herpes; *
   
3. φοιτάς = φοιταλέος, roaming wildly about, of the βάκχαι; as Adj., φ. νόσος – madness, frenzy; much trodden, frequented;
   
4. φοίτης = κῆρυξ (H) – herald, pursuivant: generally, public messenger, envoy; crier, who made proclamation and kept order in assemblies, etc., auctioneer; generally, messenger, herald; trumpet-shell, e.g. Triton nodiferum, and smaller species;
   
5. φοῖτος, ὁ, a repeated going or coming: metaph., wandering of mind; φοιτός, late spelling of φυτός;
   
6. φυτάς – plant, young offspring;
   
7. φύτης for θύτης (Aeol.) – sacrificer or diviner;**
   
8. φῠτός – of a wooden statue, shaped by nature, without art; fruitful;
   
9. fedus (Lat) = haedus – kid, young goat; two stars in constellation Auriga, The Kid;
   
10. fētŭs – fetus or foetus, young in womb; embryo; (animals) offspring or young; (of a parent) children; brood or litter; young in womb; birth or bringing forth young; (eggs) laying; bearing young, breeding; conception; fruit of plant; produce or crop; offshoot, branch, sucker, sapling; bearing fruit; fētus, adj. – (animal) pregnant or breeding; fertile or fruitful; growing, teeming, abounding, full of; having newly brought forth or given birth, whelped, calved; bearing or reproducing;
    
11. fides (Lat) – chord, instrument string; constellation Lyra; stringed instrument; lyre; faith, loyalty; honesty; credit; confidence, trust, belief; good faith.
    

All the proposed Greek words for pchedy/ fchedy are suitable, in my opinion, for the single word pcheedy.
The word pchedaiin also does not have a single transcription:

1. φιτῶν, gen pl of φίτης;
   
2. φυτών – place planted, esp.vineyard; gen pl of φυτόν – plant; sucker; offshoot, child; creature; gen pl of φυτός; 3rd dual aor imper of φύω – bring forth, produce, put forth; beget, engender;
   
3. θυτών, pl of θύτης;
   
4. Φαίδων – proper noun; Phaedo (On the Soul) – a dialogue written by Plato, in which Socrates discusses the immortality of the soul and the nature of the afterlife with his friends in the hours leading up to his death.
   

The word pchedar can be:

1. φίτας, acc pl of φίτης;
   
2. φοιτάς = φοιταλέος; nom dor/ pl dat/acc of φοίτης; conj form of φοιτάω – go to and fro, backwards and forwards, and generally, with notion of repeated motion, stalk; roam wildly about; of sexual intercourse, go in to a man or woman; resort to a person as a friend; resort to a person or place for any purpose; resort to a person as a teacher; of a physician, practise; of things, esp. of objects of commerce, to come in constantly or regularly, be imported; conj form of φοιτάζω = φοιτίζω, poet. for φοιτάω;
   
3. φυτάς – plant; fem sg gen dor/ pl acc of φυτός;
   
4. θύτας, acc pl of θύτης.
   

The word pchedain can be :

1. φίταιν, gen/ dat dual of φίτης;
   
2. φιτειν for φιτύειν, inf of φιτύω – sow, plant, beget; Med., of the woman, bear;
   
3. θῡταῖν, gen/dat dual of θύτης.
   

The words pcheed.rar, read together, can be φύτρας, gen of φύτρα (H) = φύτλη, φύσις – origin, nature.
The single word pchedchdy, which I read as φιθτος, could it be τυτθός – little, small, young?
Could the word pchedairs be equivalent to fchedy[r: s]/fchedys and mean φίτης or θύτης?
Or is pchedairs φίταις, acc pl of φίτης, or θύταις dat pl of θύτης ?
The words pchedey, fchedey and pchedeey sound similar.
Words pchedey/ fchedey :

• φίτυος/ φίτυες, gen sg/ nom pl of φῖτυς;
  
• φύτιος – generative, epith. of Ἥλιος, Ζεύς;
  

Word pchedeey :

• φίτυος/ φίτυες, gen sg/ nom pl of φῖτυς;
  
• φυτείας/ φυτείες, gen sg / nom pl of φυτεία – planting, generation, production; growth, habit of a plant; plantation or simply a plant;
  
• φιτύεις, 2nd pres of φιτύω – sow, plant, beget;
  
• φύτιος – generative, epith. of Ἥλιος, Ζεύς.
  

The endings -al and -ol indicate the plural.
The word pchedal can be:

• φῖται, pl of φίτης;
  
• φυταί, fem pl of φυτός;
  
• θύται pl of θύτης.
  

The word fchedol can be :

• φιδοῖ, pl of φιδός;
  
• φυτοί, pl of φῠτός;
  
• φυτά, pl of φυτόν – plant, esp. garden plant or tree; creature; child, descendant.
  

The word fchedypaiin remains unexplained for the time being.

*Pamphlets on Homer, 1736
**Deux glossaires, l’un Grec & l’autre Latin, Par Louis Thomassin, 1690