04-07-2018, 06:01 AM
Thanks JKP, you get to the heart of the matter. How does the frae shift work? Does it mean you get to pick a similar word you'd prefer to be there instead?
04-07-2018, 06:01 AM
04-07-2018, 06:14 AM
I did a bit of reverse engineering, to see if it's possible to work out the missing step in the translation process.
If
re ur in rea = Innerhalb der Wunde der Betroffene brenne. (The victim/part burns within the wound.)
then the intervening "frame shift" would probably have the Latin word "ardeat" at the end.
Can we surmise that "rea" refers to [a]r[d]ea[t] and that three letters have been added using M. Hoffman's method? I don't see any way to make so few words into Latin without adding letters.
The affected part or victim can be expressed in a number of ways in Latin, but two common ways would be vulnus or victimas/victimam (depending on how the sentence is phrased) and I don't see anything in re ur in rea that might expand into either word (especially if rea has already been used), so once again, you would have to add many missing letters to turn this into Latin.
If
re ur in rea = Innerhalb der Wunde der Betroffene brenne. (The victim/part burns within the wound.)
then the intervening "frame shift" would probably have the Latin word "ardeat" at the end.
Can we surmise that "rea" refers to [a]r[d]ea[t] and that three letters have been added using M. Hoffman's method? I don't see any way to make so few words into Latin without adding letters.
The affected part or victim can be expressed in a number of ways in Latin, but two common ways would be vulnus or victimas/victimam (depending on how the sentence is phrased) and I don't see anything in re ur in rea that might expand into either word (especially if rea has already been used), so once again, you would have to add many missing letters to turn this into Latin.
04-07-2018, 10:42 AM
The problem with this "solution" is the same as with the majority of other solutions.
It is only considering the decoding process, and not the encoding process.
If this were really the solution, then the encoder would have used a translation table that
is the inverse of the table presented with the solution.
I challenge everyone to try and create this inverse table.
I don't think it is even possible.
It is only considering the decoding process, and not the encoding process.
If this were really the solution, then the encoder would have used a translation table that
is the inverse of the table presented with the solution.
I challenge everyone to try and create this inverse table.
I don't think it is even possible.
04-07-2018, 11:11 AM
(04-07-2018, 06:01 AM)Koen Gh. Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Thanks JKP, you get to the heart of the matter. How does the frae shift work? Does it mean you get to pick a similar word you'd prefer to be there instead?
Since it's a genetics concept being applied to a deciphering process, I'm not sure what he specifically means, because there are various ways one might apply it.
Is the text generated by adding in the missing information? Is it generated by progressive shifting of each letter (if so, then there are many characters missing). Is it generated by starting with a "marker" and then going on with that system until it restarts at a new marker?
All these are possible interpretations (and a few more).
Some clarification is definitely needed or it's nothing more than a tease.
04-07-2018, 12:03 PM
04-07-2018, 12:21 PM
My opinion is as follows. If you use the replacement code for letters (single replacement or diphthongs, with skip letters in words or without skip letters ), in any variant transcription of VMS (EVA), in the base alphabet must be the letters / ligaturesin , which are applied separately (alone) as labels of lines on f66r, You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. and on the pie chart You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. (without taking into account the rare Special symbols).
My main rebuke to the "alphabet" of You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. is the absence of an independent symbol "a" in it, since it is impossible to read the words ar, as, am, an (eva), which are many in the text.
There is also no "b", "g", "j", "u", "x", "n", h (?)
My main rebuke to the "alphabet" of You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. is the absence of an independent symbol "a" in it, since it is impossible to read the words ar, as, am, an (eva), which are many in the text.
There is also no "b", "g", "j", "u", "x", "n", h (?)
04-07-2018, 04:27 PM
I must state, that if you have no degree in science or latin/translation, you can not translate voynich, nor understand what this thread is about. Clearly, to realy understand what is inside voynich you need more insight, which you do not have without the above. I would recommend: if you do not have the requirements, please do not interrupt and leave this discussion. It does not help If you can not find something in google translate and say it does not exist. This is bloedsinn. google that instead, please.
for example, if someone here states that the "a" is missing, I say: it is in "ea" as well as in the symbol "o", which means a. the first is part of the frameshift, which he or she did not understood. because ... exactly, he/she has not the requirements. Currently, I am discussing the text of voynich with scientists of different faculties.
Since I can not upload my presentation properly, I would like to present more translations, and refer to the page of the digital copy.
Please feel free to read page 11, it is about a dance of moon (in earths shadow) and sun. note: aqua is the constellation, and here is described the rare second full moon within a month. The central and most lyric phrase here in englisch (line 5 part 2 in latin) provided by google translate, sorry for that: Together we dance, and through our splendor we shine together.
Latin:
lunam re ve a are ea ri re a eum a et e ad re ae an rem luner ner
a ea i re ali re ad aleum una osa re es i re ea i re ale ad aqua o
ad a eum a quem ea re meum a qui id ea a es re a que are ad a que a amer
a que usu ni an re ea es dea i at ea a es re
que are una ner ad a meum ea a o e ad una ad a que ei a meum una meum
una ea i at ea i re ad a ea i re ad are ri e re ad a i at esi re una quur re ner
ad aquai i re ri i re ea i alea re una ner
German:
Mit Entschlossenheit dem Mond entgegen er zieht, seit er am Firmament,
und bis an die Begegnung heran er geht, doch wohl ich werde aufgehen, ich werde umarmt.
Vor der Zusammenkunft wir wandern aufeinander zu, zusammen gegen die Ungewissheit, du bist zurück in unserem Schauspiel, vor der Umarmung warte auf den Wassermann, ach!
Nach der Umarmung er wird vergehen, sei derjenige eins der immer wieder zurück in meinen Glanz geht, und dürste mit mir ach! Und ich werde geliebt.
Und wenn Du nach der Umarmung nicht zurück gehst, so vergehe aber existiere, gehe der Göttin erneut entgegen.
Und wir kommen zusammen, ich werde umarmt, mit in meinem Glanz, ach!
Zusammen tanzen wir, und durch meinen Glanz gemeinsam glänzen wir.
Gemeinsam gehen wir, aber schon bald vergehen wir, lösen unsere Umarmung auf, die Natur ist verzehrend, weshalb können wir nicht zusammen bleiben, ich werde umarmt.
Zurück vor dem Wassermann, eins wieder der Wirklichkeit, wir vergehen zusammen gegen die Ungewissheit, ich werde umarmt.
Well, to translate this you need latin, got it?
I now have to work on the recipe, which will clearly demonstrate that my translation and decipher chart is right. I guess I can post page 36 in the next days, it is about resurrection.
Best regards,
Dr. Michael Hoffmann
for example, if someone here states that the "a" is missing, I say: it is in "ea" as well as in the symbol "o", which means a. the first is part of the frameshift, which he or she did not understood. because ... exactly, he/she has not the requirements. Currently, I am discussing the text of voynich with scientists of different faculties.
Since I can not upload my presentation properly, I would like to present more translations, and refer to the page of the digital copy.
Please feel free to read page 11, it is about a dance of moon (in earths shadow) and sun. note: aqua is the constellation, and here is described the rare second full moon within a month. The central and most lyric phrase here in englisch (line 5 part 2 in latin) provided by google translate, sorry for that: Together we dance, and through our splendor we shine together.
Latin:
lunam re ve a are ea ri re a eum a et e ad re ae an rem luner ner
a ea i re ali re ad aleum una osa re es i re ea i re ale ad aqua o
ad a eum a quem ea re meum a qui id ea a es re a que are ad a que a amer
a que usu ni an re ea es dea i at ea a es re
que are una ner ad a meum ea a o e ad una ad a que ei a meum una meum
una ea i at ea i re ad a ea i re ad are ri e re ad a i at esi re una quur re ner
ad aquai i re ri i re ea i alea re una ner
German:
Mit Entschlossenheit dem Mond entgegen er zieht, seit er am Firmament,
und bis an die Begegnung heran er geht, doch wohl ich werde aufgehen, ich werde umarmt.
Vor der Zusammenkunft wir wandern aufeinander zu, zusammen gegen die Ungewissheit, du bist zurück in unserem Schauspiel, vor der Umarmung warte auf den Wassermann, ach!
Nach der Umarmung er wird vergehen, sei derjenige eins der immer wieder zurück in meinen Glanz geht, und dürste mit mir ach! Und ich werde geliebt.
Und wenn Du nach der Umarmung nicht zurück gehst, so vergehe aber existiere, gehe der Göttin erneut entgegen.
Und wir kommen zusammen, ich werde umarmt, mit in meinem Glanz, ach!
Zusammen tanzen wir, und durch meinen Glanz gemeinsam glänzen wir.
Gemeinsam gehen wir, aber schon bald vergehen wir, lösen unsere Umarmung auf, die Natur ist verzehrend, weshalb können wir nicht zusammen bleiben, ich werde umarmt.
Zurück vor dem Wassermann, eins wieder der Wirklichkeit, wir vergehen zusammen gegen die Ungewissheit, ich werde umarmt.
Well, to translate this you need latin, got it?
I now have to work on the recipe, which will clearly demonstrate that my translation and decipher chart is right. I guess I can post page 36 in the next days, it is about resurrection.
Best regards,
Dr. Michael Hoffmann
04-07-2018, 05:40 PM
Excuse me. Maybe we did not understand each other. But I do not see how to read words ar, as, am (eva) without an independent "a" (EVA), because it's not in your "alphabet". Explain, please.
[attachment=2231]
[attachment=2231]
04-07-2018, 06:32 PM
If you can, maybe explain the star labels in the star pages (especially the eclipse(?) page), so that we get to know if what we already have a faint idea of, is right.
This might also give instant gratification to the people who might otherwise not get the grasp of your method...
This might also give instant gratification to the people who might otherwise not get the grasp of your method...
04-07-2018, 07:26 PM
(04-07-2018, 04:27 PM)Dr. Michael Hoffmann Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I must state, that if you have no degree in science or latin/translation, you can not translate voynich, nor understand what this thread is about.
I don't believe this.
I know a great many extremely intelligent people in the computer industry. Some of them have never gone to university, but they have designed computers, they are software developers (extremely good software developers) and they are keenly intelligent. They can follow almost any scientific concept or logical problem. In their spare time they chat about quantum physics and laser acceleration-chamber technology.
Also, some of us in the Voynich community do have degrees in science, so you don't have to simplify your explanations. Those who understand it can explain it to the rest.
(04-07-2018, 04:27 PM)Dr. Michael Hoffmann Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.It does not help If you can not find something in google translate and say it does not exist.
You seem to think we need Google Translate to understand languages. That is not so. Many of us know several languages and there are a number of Latin scholars in the Voynich community. I don't use Google Translate to read other languages except when it's a language I don't know (like Arabic or Lithuanian).
There is a lot of collective knowledge in the Voynich community, and many of the forum users are good at languages.
(04-07-2018, 04:27 PM)Dr. Michael Hoffmann Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.for example, if someone here states that the "a" is missing, I say: it is in "ea" as well as in the symbol "o", which means a. the first is part of the frameshift, which he or she did not understood. because ... exactly, he/she has not the requirements. Currently, I am discussing the text of voynich with scientists of different faculties.
This is an extremely insulting statement.
We did not misunderstand because we do not have the requirements, several people on the forum have advanced graduate degrees. We are unable to understand because you did not give a sufficient explanation of HOW you are applying a frame shift concept. We are perfectly capable of understanding frame shifts, but you did not explain the exact mechanism. There is more than one way frame-shift concepts could be applied to VMS text. So we are forced to guess until you give a more complete explanation.
It's pretty poor of you to insult OUR intelligence when it was YOU who didn't describe the crucial step in your original announcement.