The Voynich Ninja

(26-07-2018, 02:27 PM)-JKP- Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

Quote:M. Hoffmann: "meo neu sale" means the torturer is using salt

Oy. I wish you would stop calling it Latin.

May I kindly ask what your scientific background is? Do you hold a degree in latin? Because I think you do not have any degree in anything.

Here I explain it to you:

meo: means "I go", (first person singular simple present indicative active)
neu: means "and not", it is a conjunction.
sale: second person singular simple present imperative active, it means, literally "to salt", however is used as I said.

Would you mind to stop useless posts here, please?

Thank you very much in advance for your help,
Dr. Michael Hoffmann

(26-07-2018, 02:43 PM)Dr. Michael Hoffmann Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.... Because I think you do not have any degree in anything...

Then you think wrongly.

I hold a Master in historical linguistics and I confirm that JKP's assessment is right.

(26-07-2018, 04:17 PM)Koen Gh. Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I hold a Master in historical linguistics and I confirm that JKP's assessment is right.

and you have still no explanation why I can translate that manuscript, deliver stories that make sense, starting with a beginning, going through a climax, and resulting in an ending. and why I have to explain you latin?

well.

a master is in germany someone who has worked within a field for a couple of years. that, a master, means nothing without publictions. do you have some? please do not respond. you use my posts here for bringing you up. please, find your own topic.

and sure. you can discuss further on and on and on. that is why you are here. I am here, because I have decoded voynich. Can you provide anything comparable? I do not think so. Please. Leave this post. I am going to present my translations here. You can present yours elsewhere.

Best regards,
Dr. Michael Hoffmann

Hi all,

I would advise to focus on discussing the manuscript in this thread instead of discussing each others degrees. The latter can be done in the "Introducing researchers" subforum where you are welcome to briefly present your scientific and professional background.

Michael, with regard to your proposal to consider the output of your method as Latin, I can only re-iterate my question of whether you have submitted samples of the text to the independent review of recognized experts in Latin. As a man of science, you would agree, I presume, that independent review is key to appraisal and recognition of one's scientific results.

(26-07-2018, 02:43 PM)Dr. Michael Hoffmann Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

(26-07-2018, 02:27 PM)-JKP- Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

Quote:M. Hoffmann: "meo neu sale" means the torturer is using salt

Oy. I wish you would stop calling it Latin.

May I kindly ask what your scientific background is? Do you hold a degree in latin? Because I think you do not have any degree in anything.

Here I explain it to you:

meo: means "I go", (first person singular simple present indicative active)
neu: means "and not", it is a conjunction.
sale: second person singular simple present imperative active, it means, literally "to salt", however is used as I said.

Would you mind to stop useless posts here, please?

Thank you very much in advance for your help,
Dr. Michael Hoffmann

Dr. Hoffmann,

Correct me if I am wrong, but I fear 'sale' is not the "second person singular simple present imperative active" of salio/salo.  That would be 'sali,' surely, given that salio is fourth conjugation?  Sale is the ablative of sal, meaning 'by/with/from salt.'

I am afraid that 'meo neu sale' ("I go and not - Salt!") is, in my opinion, an even less successful attempt at Latin than 'Romanes eunt domus.'  

Finally, while I mean no disrespect to your academic credentials, please don't insult Koen's (which might be more directly relevant to understanding mediaeval Latin than yours).  This forum has been refreshingly free of ad hominems for some while now, and it would be nice to keep it that way.

Dear Dr. Hoffmann

I hold a degree in Medieval Latin, which is surely more to the point than a Dr. rer. nat. in Biology and I can assure you that your transscription of the ms. is wrong  and your translation is worse and it is certainly not Latin and your translation into German isn't any better

Best regards

Helmut Winkler

just as a note:

a hypothesis is something that is not the truth. it states something, that might be worthy to work with. or not.

any hypothesis is "true" as long someone prove it wrong. that is science. i am a scientist. i provide my translations based upon my hypothesis. if anyone can prove them wrong, and thereby provide a better hypothesis, that is the way we have to walk.

otherwise, and that is what i am facing here is: just discussing the negative things, that is not science and does not bring anyone forward.

capisce?

Michael, if a hypothesis "is not the truth", then it cannot be "true". This is plain logic.

A hypothesis is neither "true" nor "wrong". It is a statement (or set of statements) pending verification.

For your method, the first and foremost verification is to show the output to an expert in Latin and ask him/her if this is coherent Latin to begin with, modern, medieval, classic or otherwise. So far people with knowledge of Latin (in this forum) have been advising you that the output of your method is not what a Latin-speaking person would produce. What else disproof would you like to obtain? if you do not trust their opinion, why not send a sample to a recognized expert? Why do you neglect their knowledge of Latin? Have you studied Latin and to what extent, so that you judge the knowledge of others?

Last but not least, you are wrong in that a statement is true unless it's proven otherwise. For an example, imagine that I state that I've just seen a ghost. (It may have been a curl of smoke from the upper storey, but my hypothesis is that it was a ghost). Should my statement be considered true until one proves that no ghosts exist?

(26-07-2018, 05:57 PM)Dr. Michael Hoffmann Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view....

and you have still no explanation why I can translate that manuscript, deliver stories that make sense, starting with a beginning, going through a climax, and resulting in an ending. and why I have to explain you latin?

...
Best regards,
Dr. Michael Hoffmann

I think this is exactly the problem.

You are not translating. You are

1. picking two or three fragments in each phrase that LOOK like Latin (but they are not Latin),
   
2. ignoring the rest,
   
3. subjectively converting them into stories according to your concept of storytelling (beginning, climax, ending), and
   
4. ignoring what is actually on the page.
   

When people start making personal attacks instead of defending the data on logical principles, it's usually because deep down they have become uncertain about their own logic.