The Voynich Ninja

(19-07-2018, 08:43 AM)ReneZ Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view....

The theory is used as the benchmark.
...

Excellent statement. Succinct summation.

(18-07-2018, 12:20 PM)Dr. Michael Hoffmann Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.here now the translations, beginning with paragraph 1, latin first than in german:

1 ve ea re der reo et re qu exis una o urat est id erra dura o m re
...

Dr Hoffmann,

ve ea re der reo et re qu exis una o urat est id erra dura o m re is not comprehensible Latin.  Anyone who has spent ten minutes memorising 'amo...amas...amat...' can see that, and there are people here who have studied Latin to postgraduate level.  

You cannot translate this as it stands, because it is meaningless.  Logically, it is not possible to translate something which is meaningless - so your 'frame shift' process must somehow convert this meaningless agglomeration of short syllables into something which you think is coherent, grammatical, unambiguous Latin.

Can you please tell us what coherent, grammatical and unambiguous Latin you believe you have derived from ve ea re der reo et re qu exis una o urat est id erra dura o m re?  There is no need to explain the process if you think we may not be able to follow it - personally, I am happy to judge by results for now.

(19-07-2018, 08:43 AM)ReneZ Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I have a theory about who sold the MS to Rudolf.

Hey, as the Dutch saying goes, "who says A, must say B"

(19-07-2018, 08:43 AM)ReneZ Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view....


I have a theory about who sold the MS to Rudolf. I've had it since 2012. Evidence supporting it exists, and even though it has increased significantly in the last year or so, it is still not sufficient to my liking. So, still searching and not writing about it just yet. (Sorry for off-topic)

I think this is why I've ended up with a mountain of data and have only written up about 1% of it. I'm still looking. None of it has enough supporting evidence for my liking either—I hate posting unfinished research-in-progress. But sometimes one has to give up some of it because it becomes a "hot topic" and if you don't post then 1) no one believes you have anything at all and 2) you end up looking like you copied it from someone else, even if you were the first to notice it.

I would like to announce my contribution to this interesting and high level thread as well

Here it comes:          

Well, at least Hoffman published his results. I give him points for that.

(20-07-2018, 12:39 PM)DONJCH Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Well, at least Hoffman published his results. I give him points for that.

Is it results, or is it storytelling?

Most of the decipherments I've seen have a subjective component, but this one seems even more subjective than most.

Another useful test of solutions in general is to see what the most common words in the Voynich MS translate to. These are words like:
chol
daiin
chedy
aiin
qokaiin

If they translate to various different plain text words or phrases, or to words/phrases that are not expected to be very common in the plain text, then this is a very bad sign.

I have not done this check.

I am currently working on page 196. the text there resembles a protocol, however the topic is torture. wether it is a real protocol, written in shorthand, or a fiction I can not tell yet. Most of the pages there seem to have the same content.

Please read the latin translation as follows. I have subdivided the text into six paragraphs. and please remind: "o" is a period in most cases, sometimes a question mark. Here, a double "o" marks a new paragraph. In summary the text is about: Some guys preparing fire and some kind of plates (areum). During the torture there is much burning (ur), a rat (muri) holding to the face (os) of the defendant (reus). They also use an ox (uros). It begins with "lauri" which is laurels, the torturer means he is doing very well. Some passages are for adults only, and because of that I will not provide any german or english translation. However, here some key passages: 

first paragraph, line 9: et or ..... seta -> and burn the hair.
line13: describes how they burn the face
line 24: well, here is one adult part: The face is pushed towards some part of the ox.
second paragraph, line 2: some kind of wire is used
line 5: They now use a crossbar, and prey to god (ad au deus)
fourth paragraph, line 1: They are punching rigorously the face and prey (oro m re quat)
line 3: Now the rat is used, may be because the face is now bloody enough, however that is not mentioned there explicitly
fifth paragraph: The victim is near god, and is kicked in the face

I can not tell yet what is going to happen on the next pages by now. However, if you would look at that page: You will notice multiple heptagrams on the left side. You can look for yourself, what that symbol means, by the way.

1 lauri re ad areo ea os i eo a te ea iam e ut e ore ut uni areum ea i al ali eo ur in ret eo ea re
2 uni ire a re ea i a ori in re ad al e ut uni es re ad ali eo a qui ea in re ad al in re ad al i meta ea re
3 meus ea in re ur in eo a quin re a qui i a ea in re ad ali ire meus ea es et a quat ad a que usa que ut a
4 meum ea ire ea al in e ut e ut eo a o ur in re ad al in re ad al in et a qui in re al in re ea in re oret a
5 ad ali in a eum a quin re ad al in re ea in re ad ali ire ad ali in re ad ali eo ur in re ad a quin eo o a o
6 ali i a area et ali in re ea i eo ad ali ire ori ire ea a o or eum ali in eum en e ori in ret a
7 ad ali i ea ire ad areum a qui eum ve a i i a or ex sali ire o o ea i in re a que ore use a i meus eo
8 una a que a ire ea i a ori ea re ea es ire a reus eo ori ire ad a reus ea i os re ea in et eta
9 o uni re uni meo ali et or in re ea i a ori ire ori re ali ire ad ali ire ad al ire ad al ex seta
10 deum ur in ad al uni a o at ea i a o a o eum uni re ad areum ea iet ad a qui a o ures re omen
11 re o ea i ire uni et eum uni iet a que usa quin re ad a reus ea in reus ur in ex que use a eo re
12 ad iet e usu ni re ali i ire ad areum ea i os re una o ea eo uni ire ur os ire lunet qu et
13 uni eum al eum ea os re ea i a or in re ea i que tale ut ur eo o ea meo quin re que te tam
14 ad a ea i a o ad al e ut ea iet a o eis ur in re ad a que usa da ri i ea re a ori ire ori uso eo ni ota
15 deus uni eo a que usa da reum eo reus ea in re a queo o ea in re ad al e use a queo a que uso o d
16 ad a reus uni re areum uni ire ad a reus ea reo ea os re deum eto ea eo uni a que is
17 da ore is uni re areum uni ire ad al e usa reo ea os re deum eto ea eo uni a que is
18 que id ur in re ad a i in eum ore is ea et ur es ire ad al re ea re ad areum
19 ad areum ea i eo que is ad a reus uni re ad a reus ea et ur es ire ad al re ea re ad areum
20 ure is ad al eo ur et ad a qui eo ad a que is ea in re ad a que is ur es re ad al ur in re ad a que is et
21 de ut e ut is ad a o te te ut ea i ire ori ire o reus ea i a reus uni a ad a ad a reus ea i ut eo et a
22 deum re ea iet a o uni ire ea i que use a in re ad al e use o ea es a reo ea ire ori i ire
23 ad areum uni os re ad al et ea eo reus ea os in re o ea i a o areum ad a reus ea i a o meum o eta
24 ea i ane usa da ret a que use a in re ore use a ire uros re ad al o ea in re ad al et ea es et a
26 que ut eo ea in e turre reum eam eta

1 te eo ru use a i a te eum a que usu rimer te ea in re a te ea i in re ad a reus ea eo ire a que a i reo omen
2 una ret ali a reus uni i reus ad a reus ea i ea ire ad ali ire ad i que usa que use tore uso rer
3 te a ea ire a qui e use a i reus ea i eo o e use a ire ad a reus ea ire o reus ea eo o mero o t a
4 que te a ire que use a ret eo ret ea ire ad a o ea in re a reus ea ire o ea i ire ea et et a
5 re uni eo ad au deus a res uni ex sera da res ea e seta ese a i eo ea et


1 te a o et a ret qui ane rad a reus que o a o qu eta o a te ea in re ad a qu et a qu et ea queo det a
2 a e usa reum ea es re ore uso ea ire o uni reus ad a queo ur in re eari ire ori i in o reus re
3 ure usa reum ea ire ad al et etate use o t eta o at

1 te eo ea ire oret uret a reus ad a reus ure oro m re quat ea ire ream re ori in ret eo m o
2 re ea i ire a eum ea i os ire a que usa da quo ea iet ea in re ad ali ire ali in re ori ire
3 muri ire ad a reo ea in re ea es re ad a reus ea in re ori ire uni re ad a reus ea in re o eam re
4 reri i ire o reus ea os re ea a reus ea os eo uni os in re ad ali ire ad ali in re o ea do
5 a qui ire o ea in re qui i in re ori ire a qui in re al in re ea in re ad ali ire ea i es re ad a queo
6 ea i i a ori ie ea iet ad ali ex sali iet ea i in re a reus ea in re ea in re qui in re o ea i eta
7 re ea iam eum uni i rer ea ali eo uni i ret areum a que use a iet eo a o eum ea a qu eta
8 meus qui a meus ea i i eo a o eum at

1 te a o o eum a reus uni eo te ea i meus a te ea ire te a o ur re al uni re a te ea in re ad a te ea eu deo rer
2 da o ea ire ori iret a ori ire ea os re ali i ire o ea in re ori e use a i es re ad a que use o re
3 deus ea i ire ad ali ire ea ire que use o e use ri i in re ea i reus ea os ire o ea et
 
1 te deo et ea ire ad i reo ea ire reum que use a eo eo deru mere a in re a te eam eo a te ea re
2 da ter ea i ire ea reus ea eo o at uni ire ad a reus a reus ea ire ad a reus ali ire
3 ur eum ad au usa reus ea ire ad ali i ire a reus ea i id eta o o a i i id a que usa t
4 deus ea i eo ea os re a reus a reo eum ea a quer ea os re

ps: yes, you are the first people now reading the voynich page 196 for 500 years. congratulation.

Quote:M. Hoffman: Please read the latin translation as follows.... In summary the text is about: Some guys preparing fire and some kind of plates (areum). During the torture there is much burning (ur), a rat (muri) holding to the face (os) of the defendant (reus). They also use an ox (uros). It begins with "lauri" which is laurels, the torturer means he is doing very well. Some passages are for adults only, and because of that I will not provide any german or english translation. However, here some key passages:

Quote:Some guys preparing fire and some kind of plates (areum).

• In Latin, areum is a name, such as the old Greek hilltop judiciary in Athens (it wasn't really used for anything else); aureus and aurum refer to gold. arcum can refer to a trident or spear-like implement. The word areum (or words similar to it) have nothing to do with fire (flamma, ignis, incendium) or plates (lanx, patella).
  

Quote:During the torture there is much burning (ur), a rat (muri) holding to the face (os) of the defendant (reus).

• The word muri does not mean rat, it means walls (plural). Rat is mus or sorex in Latin.
  
• If "os" is interpreted as "face" then you have to explain why you translated "os" as "face" when it can also mean the front of a boat, or bone, or mouth.
  
  2 re ea i ire a eum ea i os ire a que usa da quo ea iet ea in re ad ali ire ali in re ori ire
  
  3 muri ire ad a reo ea in re ea es re ad a reus ea in re ori ire uni re ad a reus ea in re o eam re
  
  

You got reus (offender, defendant) right, so we are forced to assume that you are not somehow manipulating the words further to get Latin out of it, which means that you are interpreting most of the Latin incorrectly and only getting the occasional word right. But even those you get right are not grammatical (and also not grammatically compatible with the text around them) and some of them, like "os" have several meanings and you seem to be picking whichever one is convenient.

.
As far as I can tell from the many examples posted, your "method" is to pick one or two words out of each phrase, like "os", "muri" and "reus", ones that look a bit like Latin, then "translating" them (mostly incorrectly), and then using that as the basis to make up the story in between.