The Voynich Ninja

(04-07-2018, 04:27 PM)Dr. Michael Hoffmann Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Since I can not upload my presentation properly, I would like to present more translations, and refer to the page of the digital copy.

You know, Dr. Hoffmann, for someone who talks like he's so far above the rest of us in terms of knowledge and intelligence, it's surprising that you could not figure out how to upload a full-sized picture of your explanation. I had no trouble doing it. It was easy.

Now you say you cannot upload your presentation properly. Why not? It's not a hard technical problem to solve. If you can't figure out how to do it, perhaps you should just ask.


In the meantime, I am happy to see you uploading more of your translations, but you still have not explained precisely how you are applying frame-shift concepts. And don't worry about knowing Latin. Many people on the Ninja forum know Latin, and a few of them know it very well.

Do you know that there is a sequence * aiiin? You do not have it.
Do you know that the characters (EVA) "a", "c", "n", "x", "j" in the text can stand alone? How will you interpret them?
You ignore the existence of EVA - "h". See  You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
There are "benches" (including those combined with the gallows), in which the left leg is written as "i".  
How does this all fit into your concept of translation?

For those who do not know German, here is a translation into English (I am not a native German speaker but it should be close enough to give you the idea). I have color-coded the languages to make it easier to read:

Hoffman's transliteration into "Latin" (I assume this is without the frame shift since it is not Latin):


lunam re ve a are ea ri re a eum a et e ad re ae an rem luner ner
a ea i re ali re ad aleum una osa re es i re ea i re ale ad aqua o
ad a eum a quem ea re meum a qui id ea a es re a que are ad a que a amer
a que usu ni an re ea es dea i at ea a es re
que are una ner ad a meum ea a o e ad una ad a que ei a meum una meum
una ea i at ea i re ad a ea i re ad are ri e re ad a i at esi re una quur re ner
ad aquai i re ri i re ea i alea re una ner


From "Latin" to German:

Mit Entschlossenheit dem Mond entgegen er zieht, seit er am Firmament,
He firmly/resolutely pulls the moon, as he is in the Firmament,

und bis an die Begegnung heran er geht, doch wohl ich werde aufgehen, ich werde umarmt.
and until he goes to the encounter/meeting, surely he will have risen, I become/am embraced.

Vor der Zusammenkunft wir wandern aufeinander zu, zusammen gegen die Ungewissheit, du bist zurück in unserem Schauspiel, vor der Umarmung warte auf den Wassermann, ach!
Before the meeting/gathering, we wander/travel toward one another, together against the unknown/uncertainty, you are back in our drama/play/theater, ah! before the embrace of the Waterman (Aquarius).

Nach der Umarmung er wird vergehen, sei derjenige eins der immer wieder zurück in meinen Glanz geht, und dürste mit mir ach! Und ich werde geliebt.
After the embrace, he will elapse/fade away, be the one that again and again returns to my splendor, and thirst with me ah! And I become/am loved.


Und wenn Du nach der Umarmung nicht zurück gehst, so vergehe aber existiere, gehe der Göttin erneut entgegen.
And when you do not go back to the embrace, so is existence undone, return again to the goddess.


Und wir kommen zusammen, ich werde umarmt, mit in meinem Glanz, ach!
And we come together, I become/am embraced, together in my radiance/splendor, ah!


Zusammen tanzen wir, und durch meinen Glanz gemeinsam glänzen wir.
Together we dance, and through my radiance we shine together.


Gemeinsam gehen wir, aber schon bald vergehen wir, lösen unsere Umarmung auf, die Natur ist verzehrend, weshalb können wir nicht zusammen bleiben, ich werde umarmt.
Together we go, but soon we pass, to loosen our embrace, Nature is consumed, why can't we stay together, I am embraced.


Zurück vor dem Wassermann, eins wieder der Wirklichkeit, wir vergehen zusammen gegen die Ungewissheit, ich werde umarmt.
Back before the Waterman (Aquarius), [one] again the reality, we fade away together against the uncertainty, I am embraced.


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I wanted to add the Voynichese as well, but I'm not sure how Hoffmann resolved 7 lines of VMS transliteration into 9 lines of German and I don't have time to figure it out right now. If possible, I'll look at it again this evening.

The content is reasonable. This was quite a common way to describe the emergence and passing of specific constellations in medieval Europe, but how one gets from re ve a are ea ri re a to Latin or German prose is not clear.

You're not a scientist JKP, you'd never understand!!


Michael, if you know your stuff, you know how to explain it to the uninitiated. If you can't explain coherently how you get from non-Latin to something which makes some sense, you create the impression that you don't understand it yourself.

I rather have the impression that JKP is Not Happy 
Come on guys  back off and let Michael explain his steps  He hasn't explained his process fully and deserves the chance to. 
If the file size limitation is troubling you  email me the files and I'll put them up. Or pop them into a public Dropbox

Yes, I am ready to be impressed. Currently the discussion basis is missing. Of course, I assume that Mr. Hoffmann is interested in a critical discussion.

(04-07-2018, 10:54 PM)davidjackson Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I rather have the impression that JKP is Not Happy 
Come on guys  back off and let Michael explain his steps  He hasn't explained his process fully and deserves the chance to. 
If the file size limitation is troubling you  email me the files and I'll put them up. Or pop them into a public Dropbox

Hey, I took the time to post the image bigger so people could see it.

I took the time to translate the text into English so people could read it.


I'm helping, not hindering. No one is stopping him from explaining it. He's the one who says we are not knowledgable enough to understand it. I think he is  mistaken. I think Voynich researchers are smart enough (and knowledgable enough) to understand his method.

Thank you for offering to put the files up on his behalf.

(04-07-2018, 06:14 AM)-JKP- Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I did a bit of reverse engineering, to see if it's possible to work out the missing step in the translation process.

If

     re ur in rea = Innerhalb der Wunde der Betroffene brenne. (The victim/part burns within the wound.)

then the intervening "frame shift" would probably have the Latin word "ardeat" at the end.

Can we surmise that "rea" refers to [a]r[d]ea[t] and that three letters have been added using M. Hoffman's method? I don't see any way to make so few words into Latin without adding letters.


The affected part or victim can be expressed in a number of ways in Latin, but two common ways would be vulnus or victimas/victimam (depending on how the sentence is phrased) and I don't see anything in re ur in rea that might expand into either word (especially if rea has already been used), so once again, you would have to add many missing letters to turn this into Latin.

Hi JKP,

I can’t torture these poor syllables into any semblance of Latin either.

The least worst suggestion I can think of would be something like:
Re = Res (‘thing’, so conceivably what H translates as part; nom. sing.)
Ur = uritur (‘burns, 3rd person singular present from uror)
In (‘in’, preposition, takes ablative)
Rea (ablative feminine singular) of the adjective ‘reus’, which I have only seen used to mean ‘guilty’, but it might conceivably be this which H is interpreting somehow as ‘bad’ or ‘wounded’...or something...

Doesn’t convince me, but can anyone else (Helmut?) strain any croutons of meaning from this alphabet soup?

(04-07-2018, 10:54 PM)davidjackson Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.If the file size limitation is troubling you  email me the files and I'll put them up. Or pop them into a public Dropbox

There is no size limitation on image links (found on Dr. Hoffmann's own You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.):



I would have expected someone who You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. to quickly find out how to copy a link.

Nablator, thanks for posting that.

It gives a different perspective when the image is in color. Is the variation from red to blue to red supposed to indicate the frame shift? Or is it a way to distinguish individual phrases?