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Voynich through Phonetic Irish
- Voynich through Phonetic Irish
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RE: Voynich through Phonetic Irish
rikforto > 11-11-2025, 01:25 PM
I noticed that you had some lessons up about the correspondences you've identified. I've only attempted to chart the consonants here. (Vowels seem largely implied and much more malleable, but we'll get to that.) What revisions, if any, would you make to this chart? I fully believe I have made some mistakes and introduced some gaps here. Note that the cells have EVA transcripts, e.g. "d" is d.
Notes:
- The letter EVA-g corresponds to Irish /in/, /eann/, /an/, /ann/; EVA-dy to /dinn/. There is no stand-alone /n/2.
- In a bench setting, EVA-cth is /tr/ and EVA-cfh is /fr/.
- Inferred from EVA-ckr being /kr/, however note EVA-k can also be /f/ in some circumstances
- I am unsure if I heard the examples correctly here, but this comports with my understanding of consonant mutation in Irish
- Can this be voiceless as well?
- EVA-sh corresponds to Irish /br/ with no mention of standalone /b/
- A “-” indicates an expected sound not accounted for by the tutorial
- The letter EVA-g corresponds to Irish /in/, /eann/, /an/, /ann/; EVA-dy to /dinn/. There is no stand-alone /n/2.
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RE: Voynich through Phonetic Irish
oshfdk > 11-11-2025, 02:33 PM
(11-11-2025, 12:52 AM)Doireannjane Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.3.From under make minor tube tubes from minor tube tubes?
variation
Is from under (re)mak(ing) minor tube tubes(tubules) from two minor tube tubes(tubules)?
Are "tube" and "tubes" different in the original spelling? It's three times "fo-fheadan" and one time "fho-fheadan" in your transcription, is this a typo or some actual difference in how these labels are written in the manuscript?
Could you give a reading for the example from You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. in the image below?
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RE: Voynich through Phonetic Irish
Doireannjane > 11-11-2025, 02:40 PM
So there are a few things: d or dh are not distinguished, they’re both represented by infinity sign. But Dh in modern Irish in middle of a word can sound silent or like EE syllable, like in ATHDHEAN it sounds like AH HEE ANN. -
RE: Voynich through Phonetic Irish
Doireannjane > 11-11-2025, 02:54 PM
I can’t properly read parts of the graph. Why is there a sh? This is a little complicated because the three dialects are super different, I usually find myself hearing it as either Munster or Connacht because of what has and what has not been retained sound wise and character wise.
B in Modern Irish is usually in combination with other characters (mbd in Irish) to make other sounds that are covered already by bh or VUH, for example -
RE: Voynich through Phonetic Irish
rikforto > 11-11-2025, 03:00 PM
(11-11-2025, 02:40 PM)Doireannjane Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.So there are a few things: d or dh are not distinguished, they’re both represented by infinity sign. But Dh in modern Irish in middle of a word can sound silent or like EE syllable, like in ATHDHEAN it sounds like AH HEE ANN.
Wait, does d represent letters (e.g., Irish alphabetical symbols d or dh) or does it represent the underlying sounds (e.g. IPA /ɣ/, /j/)? I realize there is a correspondence between the two, but are you saying the Voynichnese script is mainly phonetic or orthographic?[font=sans-serif]/j/)[/font] -
RE: Voynich through Phonetic Irish
Doireannjane > 11-11-2025, 03:04 PM
(11-11-2025, 02:33 PM)oshfdk Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
(11-11-2025, 12:52 AM)Doireannjane Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.3.From under make minor tube tubes from minor tube tubes?
variation
Is from under (re)mak(ing) minor tube tubes(tubules) from two minor tube tubes(tubules)?
Are "tube" and "tubes" different in the original spelling? It's three times "fo-fheadan" and one time "fho-fheadan" in your transcription, is this a typo or some actual difference in how these labels are written in the manuscript?
Could you give a reading for the example from You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. in the image below?
Yeah! They’re spelled the same! It’s a lyrical sounding question that could have inflection on one of each duplicate. But the word for tube and tubules sounds the same, more or less, in Irish. -
RE: Voynich through Phonetic Irish
Doireannjane > 11-11-2025, 03:12 PM
I’m a gestalt language processor which has worked in my favor for this I think. I’m so slow/bad with the EVA graph up there haha but I’ll take a screen shot and try to make edits. -
RE: Voynich through Phonetic Irish
Doireannjane > 11-11-2025, 03:46 PM
(11-11-2025, 03:00 PM)rikforto Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
(11-11-2025, 02:40 PM)Doireannjane Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.So there are a few things: d or dh are not distinguished, they’re both represented by infinity sign. But Dh in modern Irish in middle of a word can sound silent or like EE syllable, like in ATHDHEAN it sounds like AH HEE ANN.
Wait, does d represent letters (e.g., Irish alphabetical symbols d or dh) or does it represent the underlying sounds (e.g. IPA /ɣ/, /j/)? I realize there is a correspondence between the two, but are you saying the Voynichnese script is mainly phonetic or orthographic?[font=sans-serif]/j/)[/font]
Sorry for the confusion:
Infinity symbol = d and dh in modern Irish (both hard and soft sounding)
Modern Irish has changed but a lot is the same, I linked the translation of Tain Bo which is helpful -
RE: Voynich through Phonetic Irish
cabeswater > 11-11-2025, 04:58 PM
I'm happy to check for repeatability if you want me to but I don't think you're going to like what I have to say. I believe I've reached out to you via email before and then realised this was a much bigger bear to poke than I was bothered poking. I probably sound like the meanest person but in fact I would be over the moon if the Voynich was in Irish. I've no personal issues with you or your work but if you want a native speaker's input you should probably heed what the native speaker is telling you. I won't be watching any videos; text or images only since that's how papers are written, and if you can't get your point across in written form then your point is too obscure to work.
Your method of saying the sounds you think you see and letting a dictation service find words that match is the very definition of cherry picking.
How would you translate f108v.40 EVA "Sheeal qokeedy qokeedy qokeedy"?
Can you explain why such a heavy proportion of the manuscript's text includes words that start with "fo-" [EVA qo] meaning under- (according to you), and "ath-" [EVA o] meaing re- (also according to you)? You said previously in the thread that you just ignore some of the vord initial EVA o, but you include it in the vord when it suits you. I hope I don't have to explain why just throwing away the most heavily featured feature of the text isn't great, and even worse to pick and choose when you keep it and when you disregard it. -
RE: Voynich through Phonetic Irish
Jorge_Stolfi > 11-11-2025, 05:44 PM
(11-11-2025, 03:12 PM)Doireannjane Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I’m a gestalt language processor
Perhaps we can go the other way around? According to your proposal, how would the Author of the VMS have spoken the following sentence in Irish, and how would he have spelled it in the Voynichese alphabet:
Tea of the bark of willow is good for ailments of the stomach and liver. Take two cups
daily for ten days. Willows grow near rivers. The bark is best collected in Spring.
I understand that the spelling system you propose allows for many variant spellings. Can you list a few of them, using the above sentence?
All the best, --stolfi