- Options
- Login
- Desktop Style
Options
Voynich through Phonetic Irish
- Voynich through Phonetic Irish
-
RE: Voynich through Phonetic Irish
Doireannjane > 11-11-2025, 05:47 PM
(11-11-2025, 04:58 PM)cabeswater Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I'm happy to check for repeatability if you want me to but I don't think you're going to like what I have to say. I believe I've reached out to you via email before and then realised this was a much bigger bear to poke than I was bothered poking. I probably sound like the meanest person but in fact I would be over the moon if the Voynich was in Irish. I've no personal issues with you or your work but if you want a native speaker's input you should probably heed what the native speaker is telling you. I won't be watching any videos; text or images only since that's how papers are written, and if you can't get your point across in written form then your point is too obscure to work.
Your method of saying the sounds you think you see and letting a dictation service find words that match is the very definition of cherry picking.
How would you translate f108v.40 EVA "Sheeal qokeedy qokeedy qokeedy"?
Can you explain why such a heavy proportion of the manuscript's text includes words that start with "fo-" [EVA qo] meaning under- (according to you), and "ath-" [EVA o] meaing re- (also according to you)? You said previously in the thread that you just ignore some of the vord initial EVA o, but you include it in the vord when it suits you. I hope I don't have to explain why just throwing away the most heavily featured feature of the text isn't great, and even worse to pick and choose when you keep it and when you disregard it.
I understand the frustration. Im at work so Im not able to respond as in depth as I’d like. I also am not a professional linguist. “4o” = in writing and in sound “fa” “fo” “feo” in modern Irish. Often in the text it is fo- the prefix meaning sub or under. -
RE: Voynich through Phonetic Irish
Doireannjane > 11-11-2025, 06:15 PM
I will also say, I am in no way shape or form, cherry picking. I am using phonetics. I would not have got plants and roots back that no one including myself knows. I don’t want to sound like extra, but that’s the case. My process from beginning to end is documented. I am not a professional linguist so I’m making this graph the best I can with all the exceptions. -
RE: Voynich through Phonetic Irish
rikforto > 11-11-2025, 06:36 PM
(11-11-2025, 02:54 PM)Doireannjane Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I can’t properly read parts of the graph. Why is there a sh? This is a little complicated because the three dialects are super different, I usually find myself hearing it as either Munster or Connacht because of what has and what has not been retained sound wise and character wise.
B in Modern Irish is usually in combination with other characters (mbd in Irish) to make other sounds that are covered already by bh or VUH, for example
You may want to familiarize yourself with EVA, but the "sh" corresponds to sh. In your video, you read it as Irish "b", which is a voiced bilabial stop. If it is also "bh" then I can update the table to that it is also a voiced labial fricative. I can also delete it from the stop line if it is not a stop. And if it is a letter, rather than a phonological value, please let me know so I can stop trying to fit your system to Irish phonology. -
RE: Voynich through Phonetic Irish
Doireannjane > 11-11-2025, 07:33 PM
This image is “fh” or “bh” in Irish writing sounding like Fuh or Vuh respectively
What I describe as an R with a hat, R symbol with loop on top (in center only) is BRIH sound and “br” written in Irish
It’s usually only a bh/vuh sound in the center of words -
RE: Voynich through Phonetic Irish
rikforto > 11-11-2025, 08:04 PM
(11-11-2025, 07:33 PM)Doireannjane Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.This image is “fh” or “bh” in Irish writing sounding like Fuh or Vuh respectively
What I describe as an R with a hat, R symbol with loop on top (in center only) is BRIH sound and “br” written in Irish
It’s usually only a bh/vuh sound in the center of words
Based on your feedback, I have updated my table. Note that the footnote for sh explains that it is "br" in Irish. I also noticed, rewatching the relevant part of the video, that I had missed s being the glottal fricative and have made that addition as well. Are there any other changes to the consonant system?
-
RE: Voynich through Phonetic Irish
Doireannjane > 11-11-2025, 08:58 PM
I’m checking this outside at work right now. But curvy hook, like G but curvy is soft and hard CUH sound “ch” and “c” in irish -
RE: Voynich through Phonetic Irish
rikforto > 11-11-2025, 09:12 PM
(11-11-2025, 08:58 PM)Doireannjane Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I’m checking this outside at work right now. But curvy hook, like G but curvy is soft and hard CUH sound “ch” and “c” in irish
I've marked where "c" and "ch" correspond in the phonology with an "s". Please take your time and answer this at home if that's easier, I'd rather get this right. But are there any other changes to the consonant system you'd like to see?
-
RE: Voynich through Phonetic Irish
Doireannjane > 12-11-2025, 02:24 AM
(11-11-2025, 09:12 PM)rikforto Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
(11-11-2025, 08:58 PM)Doireannjane Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I’m checking this outside at work right now. But curvy hook, like G but curvy is soft and hard CUH sound “ch” and “c” in irish
I've marked where "c" and "ch" correspond in the phonology with an "s". Please take your time and answer this at home if that's easier, I'd rather get this right. But are there any other changes to the consonant system you'd like to see?
I got home about an hour ago and looking at the graph is taking a while, is it cool with you if I send an image of them written? -
RE: Voynich through Phonetic Irish
rikforto > 12-11-2025, 03:25 AM
I would absolutely take a look at that when you've got it -
RE: Voynich through Phonetic Irish
Doireannjane > 12-11-2025, 03:26 AM
I did phonemic notation instead. I didn't include suffixes for ocht or acht, or aight and the rarer characters.