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| Scribes per folio |
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Posted by: quimqu - 19-08-2025, 08:33 PM - Forum: Analysis of the text
- Replies (4)
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Hello,
is there anywhere where I can find which folia or paragraphs are supppsed to be written im Currier A and B and also divided by the supppsed 5 different scribes?
Thank you
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| [split by KG - Solution (?) posted in another thread] |
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Posted by: Isogulaleb1 - 19-08-2025, 01:25 PM - Forum: Theories & Solutions
- Replies (6)
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Possible solution - everything under review . Read RIGHT to LEFT. Languaje ITALIAN & latin. Italian phonetics bi ci di gi pi qu ti . Ligatures remove i , & u in qu . Ligature ch sonds like k or ch ?. Symbol above ch breaks ligature ?. b- 8 , d- l EVA , f - p EVA , g- g , l- n EVA , n- >r< EVA constricted , p- f EVA , q- 4 , tt- t eva , tl or lt? - k EVA
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| Heraldry opens doors. |
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Posted by: R. Sale - 18-08-2025, 09:10 PM - Forum: Theories & Solutions
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The correct medieval interpretation of heraldic elements opens a door to better understanding of the VMs.
In the proper naming of the 'nebuly' line, terminology is significant when etymology and its connotations can influence interpretation. The artist clearly knows and uses the "cloudy" cosmic boundary interpretations attributed to this heraldic line pattern. Nebuly line patterns with variations occur in the botanical, cosmic, bathing, and rosette illustrations.
The second example of heraldry is VMs White Aries. The VMs artist presents an attempt to establish communication with the reader by posing the question: Does the reader know the armorial insignia of the pope who instituted the Catholic tradition of the cardinal's red galero?
Unfortunately, from the perspective of modern investigation, it tends to be that the reader does not readily find what the reader does not know already. However, from a medieval perspective, among certain groups, perhaps the dualistic construction of the radial / non-radial orientation serves as a sort of disguise - the intentional creation of ambiguity.
Can heraldry carry a message? Clearly it can. Better than starlight.
Can heraldry carry a hidden message? Let's follow the evidence.
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| Speculative fraud hypothesis |
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Posted by: dexdex - 18-08-2025, 02:15 PM - Forum: Theories & Solutions
- Replies (92)
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Preface: don't take this too seriously.
During discussion with friends, I imagined a hypothetical explanation for the creation of the manuscript. My chief problem with most hoax theories is that the amount of effort required makes the proposition that it was made as a hoax to fool someone gullible out of money stupid: a fraudulent actor simply finds someone more gullible to con, not spend a year's worth of scribing effort to create a fraudulent artifact. Such forgeries do happen, but when the amount of money thus received is tremendous - like an art forgery. The manuscript, to my mind, doesn't fit this criteria.
However, that is not the only way a con artist could use a manuscript like this. In fact, a travelling snake oil salesman could use such an artifact to bolster their credibility among marks, as a prop. After creation of such a prop, it could be reused, making for a much better return on investment. A con artist group could reuse the same artifact, making it a reasonable proposition for the five scribes to collaborate. And, the prop would also serve its purpose during creation: one could simply show off a single folio or quire and, noticing an uptick in marks catching the bait, spend more effort to create further and further pages, culminating in a book.
The advantages of this speculative hypothesis:
- Explains the amount of effort for a hoax
- Allows for collaboration with common purpose by multiple people, explaining multiple scribes
- A hoaxster could plausibly have enough cunning to invent a simple method to generate words (crust-mantle-core style) and then generate a document by basing it bits of meaningful books, thereby reproducing many of the features of the manuscript
- A hoax would have little use for corrections unless they looked bad on a page, explaining the relative lack of retouching
- Explains the signs of use on the manuscript
- Explains how someone (perhaps after incarceration or death of the hoaxters) could find the document and then bind it/add things at a later date.
- edit to add: The lack of occult or religious symbolism makes sense for such a hoax, as it gives plausible deniability that this isn't some cursed or heretical artifact, allowing for safer use as a prop in a Christian community.
The disadvantages are still legion, of course:- This is still a lot of effort, but perhaps one spent to assure that someone can't realise it is gibberish at a glance - important when you're showing the prop to multitudes of people. But there are easier ways to con people.
- The explanation for why the larger-scope semantic and textual analyses seem to suggest topic clustering is flimsy
- Gives zero clues for a possible decipherment scheme
- The parchment appears to have been acquired and prepared similarly, not congruent with being built up piece-by-piece (though not impossible)
Still, I found it a fun hypothesis so decided to share. Would love to hear some thoughts. Thanks for a bunch of threads containing interesting info to pass the time looking into this silly mystery. 
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| Cipher or unknown language - historical perspective |
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Posted by: ReneZ - 17-08-2025, 01:51 AM - Forum: Provenance & history
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Over time, people have wondered whether the writing in the Voynich MS is an invented script, as used in ciphers, or a genuine old script to represent some language.
When Voynich first presented the MS to the world, he had made up his mind: this has to be a cipher, and ever since, the MS has been called a cipher manuscript.
Nowadays, we can be certain beyond reasonable doubt, that the Voynich MS is not an example of some old writing system. No other examples have ever been found, and we know that because, in the modern world, research is accessible globally.
Did Voynich have a similar consideration, or was it commercial decision? A Roger Bacon cipher should sell for more than some unknown language.
We don't know what his reasoning was, and it does not really matter.
But what would people well before the 20th century have thought?
What was the question from Prague to Kircher?
A) please translate this language
B) please solve this cipher
This question has been asked before, and Marci's letter is neutral about this.
Barschius also does not express this very clearly in his surviving letter, which is the second about this topic.
Still, there are two hints.
First, he repeats in his letter that the reason he approached Kircher was his (supposed) success in deciphering egyptian.
Second, from Kircher's answer we know that he (or Moretus) sent Kircher a sample of a printed text in Glagolitic.
Both suggest that he was approaching Kircher for a translation of an unknown language.
Barschius certainly could not have our overview of foreign writing systems, so this is not a strange viewpoint at all.
Is this then also how people in even earlier times would have seen the MS? I do think so.
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| How to decipher the MS? |
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Posted by: quimqu - 15-08-2025, 09:40 PM - Forum: Theories & Solutions
- Replies (18)
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Hello all,
I would like to know the latest ways on how to decipher the MS. I mean, what are the key points, their order, what should not be left or forgotten...
René Zandbergen says
"Some time in the past, somebody or some group of people sat down and generated the text of the Voynich MS using some method.
This may seem trivial but, in reality, it is fundamental. There may or may not be a decoding method (step 1 above), but there certainly was an encoding or rather text generation method.
Anybody who wants to present a Voynich MS solution should present the method how the text that we see in the MS was generated. The main advantages of this approach are:
this method certainly exists and was really used by someone in the fifteenth century;
this approach works both in the case that the text is meaningful, and in case it is meaningless."
Now, for example, magnesium's Naibbe cipher has been published. A cipher that matches very well with the MS entropy and statistics. So... how should we continue? Is this a start? Should we look for other ciphers?
According to the most expert people here... What should we do? Which direction should we take? Which steps?
Thank you!
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| [split] VMS mailing list archive |
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Posted by: Jim Reeds - 12-08-2025, 03:32 PM - Forum: Voynich Talk
- Replies (13)
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This is maybe the wrong place to mention this, but: the file You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. (linked from You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.) had been removed at some point in time, because it had a "Happy99" infection. I recently found a stack of backup CD roms made in 2002, found the infected file there, unzipped it, found and deleted the infected email, and rebuilt 1999.zip. My "Bitdefender" antivirus detects no infection in the new version of 1999.zip. I will try to get it put back on the voynich.net site.
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| The Voynich Manuscript – the biological (anatomical) part. |
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Posted by: Gregor - 12-08-2025, 07:59 AM - Forum: Theories & Solutions
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To understand the encoded meaning of the individual folios of the biological part of the Manuscript, we should take as an example the way in which Albert Braillè - the creator of the French animated series: "Once Upon a Time Life", presented the anatomy and functions of the organs of the human body in several series with various themes.
And this is also how we should perceive these "small and naked women, bathing in puddles or containers connected by an intricate network of pipes in the shape of human organs".
Just like in this animated series Albert Braillè, the creators of the Voynich Manuscript used a specific "modus operandi", by means of which they inform us, living today, that knowledge of anatomy at the microscopic level was not alien to them.
What knowledge is hidden in these illustrations of the Voynich Manuscript - in its biological (anatomical) part? Below I present my way of interpreting the individual folios (from 75 R to 84V).
Voynich Manuscript – Biological (Anatomical) Part
75R - Male reproductive system.
75V - Organs of the urinary system.
76V - Biology of human life.
77R - Menstrual cycle.
77V - Female reproductive system and other organs.
78R - Endocrine (endocrine) system.
78V - Liver.
79R - Digestive system.
79V - Endocrine system of women.
80R - Love hormones.
80V - Sexual intercourse.
81R - Lymphatic system: Thymus, Spleen.
81V - Circulatory System: Heart.
82R - Skeletal system. Muscular system. Leather.
82V - Respiratory system.
83R - Nervous system.
83V - Sight.
84R - Taste. Somatic senses. Smell.
84V - Hearing.
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