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+--- Thread: Unconventional word-endings attract some agglutinative word stems (/thread-3961.html)
Unconventional word-endings attract some agglutinative word stems - Arichichi - 09-03-2023
Hello, here is data based on the ranking of usage of word-endings in the manuscript and their relative ranks based on whether they end a line, or end a word mid-line.
Quote:-sama (EVA -dy) ranks first as word ending, and first as line ending
-nero (EVA -aiin) ranks second as word ending, and third as line ending
-nese (EVA -am) ranks 20th as word ending, and second as line ending. In fact, it appears 178 times in the middle of a line, and 424 times at the end of a line.
-neme (EVA -al) ranks 7th as word ending, and 4th as line ending. In fact, it appears 1588 times in the middle of a line, and 213 times at the end of a line
-nehe (EVA -ar) ranks 5th as word ending, and 5th as line ending. In fact, it appears 2052 times in the middle of a line, and 170 times at the end of a line
-rame (EVA -ol) ranks 4th as word ending, and 6th as line ending. In fact, it appears 3008 times in the middle of a line, and 167 times at the end of a line
-mema (EVA -ly) ranks 19th as word ending, and 7th as line ending. In fact, it appears 187 times in the middle of a line, and 134 times at the end of a line
-hema (EVA -ry) ranks 27th as word ending, and 8th as line ending. In fact, it appears 85 times in the middle of a line, and 102 times at the end of a line
-tema (EVA -ky) ranks 9th as word ending, and 9th as line ending. In fact, it appears 507 times in the middle of a line, and 100 times at the end of a line
-nama (EVA -ey) ranks 3rd as word ending, and 10th as line ending. In fact, it appears 3280 times in the middle of a line, and 100 times at the end of a line
-rahe (EVA -or) ranks 6th as word ending, and 11th as line ending. In fact, it appears 1763 times in the middle of a line, and 81 times at the end of a line
-tima (EVA -ty) ranks 15th as word ending, and 12th as line ending. In fact, it appears 298 times in the middle of a line, and 68 times at the end of a line
My observations:
EVA endings “am”, “ly”, “ry”, “ty” seem to finish ideas.
EVA endings “ol”, “ey”, “or” seem to be mid-idea.
But if we want to be accurate, maybe we should consider EVA ending “ey” as an outlier and correct our assumption. Thus, character “y” should be seen as a punctuating character, while characters “ol” and “or” as grammatical cases of mid-sentence meanings. Probably, instead of grammatical case, one should see them as maybe a number ending for singular and plural. If “ol” and “or” stand for plural and singular, or some similar feature, the stem of the words ending in “ol” and “or” should appear irrespective of how the word ends, which we definitely see in the manuscript, and the 19 most common word stems using “or” use “ol” more often systematically. If plural/singular meaning should be attached to “or” and “ol”, one should explore, for those 19 most common word stems the other endings that appear systematically. Within these 19 most common word stems for the endings “or” and “ol”, “ol” ranks second as a word ending, and “or” ranks seventh as a word ending.
The systematic use of word finals that come seventh or earlier in the list with the word stems that we are considering here is pretty noteworthy.
Thus, the word endings come in the following order:
Quote:-nero (EVA -aiin) comes 1st with the 19 words, and comes 2nd globally
-rame (EVA -ol) comes 2nd with the 19 words, and comes 4th globally
-nama (EVA -ey) comes 3rd with the 19 words, and comes 3rd globally
-sama (EVA -dy) comes 4th with the 19 words, and comes 1st globally
-nehe (EVA -ar) comes 5th with the 19 words, and comes 5th globally
-neme (EVA -al) comes 6th with the 19 words, and comes 7th globally
-rahe (EVA -or) comes 7th with the 19 words, and comes 6th globally
When it comes to word structure of the stems that constitute the relationship, we can extend the 19 most common word stems list to 22 thus obtaining the following regular expressions
word_stem=((rat)|(tarat))((e)|(ena)|(i)|(ina)|(enana))
The preceding regular expression covers 10 cases
We also have ta, te, ti, di, tena. (case_2)
We also have sa, ha, he, as well as nu, nuna, no, nona.
If necessary, I will provide EVA correspondence with these word structures. From word_stem + case_2 at least, we get the following EVA list:
Quote:ta- (EVA q-)
te- (EVA k-)
rate- (EVA ok-)
tarate- (EVA qok-)
tena- (EVA ke-)
ratena- (EVA oke-)
taratena- (EVA qoke-)
ratenana- (EVA okee-)
taratenana- (EVA qokee-)
di- (EVA cth-)
ti- (EVA t-)
rati- (EVA ot-)
tarati- (EVA qot-)
ratina- (EVA ote-)
taratina- (EVA qote-)
The general view of the 22 word roots and 7 word finals is presented in the attached image
RE: Unconventional word-endings attract some agglutinative word stems - nablator - 09-03-2023
(09-03-2023, 12:06 PM)Arichichi Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.EVA endings “am”, “ly”, “ry”, “ty” seem to finish ideas.Hi Arichichi,
There is a known unexplained start and end of line statistical effect: you can search LAAFU (Line As a Functional Unit) on the forum.
For ends of sentences you could try statistics on paragraph endings. Our venerable member ReneZ marked them with <$> in
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For example:
<f1v.4,+P0> dol.chokeo.dair.dam.<->sochey.chokody<$>
RE: Unconventional word-endings attract some agglutinative word stems - Arichichi - 09-03-2023
(09-03-2023, 01:16 PM)nablator Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.There is a known unexplained start and end of line statistical effect: you can search LAAFU (Line As a Functional Unit) on the forum.
Hey, thanks for the hint. I'll try to look into it more. It seems very interesting. It seems to me that paragraph endings are a sparse aspect of the content, so it's really hard to see how we can manage to deal with them.
Also, I want to point out that, having highlighted words from the list above based on their ending, words that are ending with -sama (EVA -dy) and are enclosed between two words ending with EVA -dy, if and only if they never happen at the beginning or ending of a sequence of EVA -dy words, seem to be pretty scarce, appearing at most around 50 times in the whole manuscript. If they happen to be at the beginning of a EVA -dy sequence, they are most probably more often found elsewhere and pretty common.
RE: Unconventional word-endings attract some agglutinative word stems - Arichichi - 13-03-2023
Good news,...
I considered the following color-coding for voynichese.com: (using EVA)
blue=(*ae)|(*ar)|(*at)|(*al)|(*am)|(ae)|(ar)|(at)|(al)|(am)
green=(*oe)|(*or)|(*ot)|(*ol)|(*om)|(oe)|(or)|(ot)|(ol)|(om)
red=(*ey)|(*ry)|(*ty)|(*ly)|(*my)|(ey)|(ry)|(ty)|(ly)|(my)
As you can see in the attached file, we can break down chains of colors into one of the following sequences:
<red>
<green>+,<red>
<blue>+,<red>
<<blue>+,<green>+>+,<blue>+,<red>
This would suggest as expected, that maybe <red> means verb, and that <blue> and <green> are one of either subject or object.
I don't want you to take my assumptions at face value, your criticism is most welcome. If you can take time to visit the link and see what patterns you can find...
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[url=https://voynichese.com/#/exa:ey:crimson/exa:ry:crimson/exa:ty:crimson/exa:ly:crimson/exa:-ey:crimson/exa:-ry:crimson/exa:-ty:crimson/exa:-ly:crimson/exa:-my:crimson/exa:or:chartreuse/exa:ot:chartreuse/exa:ol:chartreuse/exa:om:chartreuse/exa:-oe:chartreuse/exa:-or:chartreuse/exa:-ot:chartreuse/exa:-ol:chartreuse/exa:-om:chartreuse/exa:ar:navy-blue/exa:al:navy-blue/exa:am:navy-blue/exa:-ar:navy-blue/exa:-at:navy-blue/exa:-al:navy-blue/exa:-am:navy-blue/f58r/exa:/510][/url]
RE: Unconventional word-endings attract some agglutinative word stems - Arichichi - 13-03-2023
The sequence of chained greens in the attached file seem to exhibit the following pattern:
<<gallow/benchgallow_word><nongallow_word>>+
This would suggest that maybe the \t gallow is the definite article "the", where the phrases would be something like
The flower withered, the sun fallen, the winter starting...
It feels to me that it is something like Arabic grammar where two nouns are associated in one sentence, where the first is described by the second, without need for a verb in the sentence.
RE: Unconventional word-endings attract some agglutinative word stems - nablator - 13-03-2023
It's difficult to see if there are clear patterns or tendencies. You should do statistics on word endings and also on the sequence of patterns in the entire transliteration without spaces, separating Currier A from Currier B. Then you could compare with a words-shuffled version of the VMS: per line, per paragraph, per page.
Facts before interpretations.
RE: Unconventional word-endings attract some agglutinative word stems - Arichichi - 13-03-2023
I understand your concerns. Though, I want to point out that I don't want to make interpretations here, I'm just observing.
When I see the VMS, I hope that I can apply microscopic and macroscopic analysis and switch between the two every now and then. As you might have observed, the thread started with a macroscopic view. Only then did I give chance for microscopic observations.
I would just kindly add that the first step to decoding the Rosetta Stone came from observing that names were written in cartouches, and thus decoding the content of the cartouches yielded the phonetic alphabet.
If it feels that I'm complaining to avoid doing what you suggested, I feel like it actually is, to some extent. It seems so novel to me to deal with sequences of words programmatically that I need to upgrade my programming skills. At first glance, do you think it's worth the effort?
RE: Unconventional word-endings attract some agglutinative word stems - nablator - 13-03-2023
(13-03-2023, 12:18 PM)Arichichi Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.At first glance, do you think it's worth the effort?
Voynichese is a huge trap for confirmation bias, so statistics are extremely useful even if transliterations are far from perfect. I don't know if anyone made an attempt to find patterns in long sequences of common bigrams.
P.S.
After a quick search on my hard drive for "pattern":
Emma May Smith and Marco Ponzi found interesting correlations across word breaks. The automatic parts of speech recognition was not successful. You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
There is the famous article by Montemurro and Zanette who reportedly discovered semantic patterns: Keywords and Co-Occurrence Patterns in the Voynich Manuscript: An Information-Theoretic Analysis You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
I believe that Nick Pelling is right about the "container layer": You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
Pardis Motiee - The Pattern Hypothesis of Voynich Manuscript
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Not what you propose, apparently, but I'm sure there are other studies.
I checked the k/t gallows sequence recently: it is extremely non-random but there are no obvious patterns, only local clusters.