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| EVA-x |
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Posted by: Mark Knowles - 05-11-2025, 10:41 PM - Forum: Voynich Talk
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Has anyone studied or thought much about the distribution of this symbol (EVA-x) throughout the manuscript? It seems to me anecdotally that when this character appears in one place on a page it is much more likely to appear somewhere else on the same page. There could be a variety of explanations for this:
1) If a word requiring this character appears once on a page then maybe the word or a related word also appears on the page.
2) Some pages seem to me to have a wider vocabulary than others and so are more likely to require this character.
3) Copying and modifying existing real words when producing filler words on a page will make this character more likely to be copied.
(Some might argue for language or dialect differences between pages and authors)
I doubt (1) as this character seems to appear in the context of different spellings.
It seems that what is true of this character is also true of other rare characters.
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| Slavic Hypothesis: Morphological Consistency Analysis |
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Posted by: Majo SK - 05-11-2025, 04:52 PM - Forum: The Slop Bucket
- Replies (15)
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- This post combines cultural insight with structural linguistic analysis — a perspective rarely explored.
--- Teaser (Intro): What if the Voynich Manuscript isn’t a cipher at all — but the spoken Slavic language of a humble person, written down exactly as it was heard? A record of herbs, seasons, and prayers — preserved through time like a voice from another world. --- Hello everyone, I am new here, and thank you for taking the time to read this. After much persuasion, I have decided to come before you — experienced researchers — with my humble hypothesis. I understand that this idea may sound unconventional, but it is not meant to replace existing research; rather, it adds a human, cultural angle to it. In my opinion, the Voynich Manuscript is a record kept by a person who lived in a time when education was rare. The text may therefore appear to be a cipher — not because it was meant to hide anything, but because it was written exactly as it was spoken. At that time, it was already a miracle that someone could write down a thought. I believe it is a personal herbal or spiritual diary—a record of seasons, plants, their uses, and rituals or prayers. The blending of Christian prayers with older, pagan-based rituals and incantations was still common even into the 20th century across many Slavic regions. This cultural background naturally explains the diverse and sometimes enigmatic nature of the Voynich Manuscript’s sections. In this context, the so-called “astrological” pages may not be astronomical at all—but cyclical, reflecting the rhythm of agricultural and spiritual life. The “biological” or bathing scenes may instead represent folk healing practices, combining herbal knowledge, prayer, and symbolic purification. To me, this is not a code, but the spoken Slavic language of a humble person, preserved phonetically in writing. ---
- The Structural Evidence: Invariant Slavic Morphology My hypothesis is supported by a structural consistency that transcends context (tested across 30 folios). Such stability is impossible in a random cipher. The entire text is built upon three invariant word-final suffixes, which define the grammatical role of the preceding root: EVA Suffix | Systemic Function | Likely Slavic Phonetic Reading | Example (Functional Reading) -ain | NOUN (Object/Substance) | -an / -yn | qokain (Root/Decoction/Thing) -edy | ADJECTIVE (Property/Condition) | -edy / -y | shedy (Dry/Astringent) -al | IMPERATIVE VERB (Command/Action) | -aj / -aj | qokal (Execute/Boil completely) Furthermore, the roots of VMS words, when decoded phonetically, frequently correspond to Old Slavic terms related to herbalism and daily life. ---
I don’t claim to have solved the mystery. All I ask is that others test this morphological stability on their own computers, read the words as they sound, and try to think not as a modern digital person, but as someone who simply tried to survive, feed his family, and record what he knew about the world around him. That humble perspective might be the key we’ve all overlooked. Thank you for your time and for keeping this discussion alive. — Majo SK
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| A question about foldouts |
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Posted by: Mauro - 05-11-2025, 03:48 PM - Forum: Physical material
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I have always supposed that the foldouts are made of a single piece of vellum cut at a longer length than usual (and a greater height too, in the case of the rosettes page). Is this true?
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| Opinions on: line as a functional unit |
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Posted by: Kaybo - 05-11-2025, 01:56 AM - Forum: Analysis of the text
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As a noob I looked at the manuscript and found some words that are nearly only exclusive at the line start like dshedy, ycheor, ycheol, dchedy, ychain. I also found some nearly exclusive at the line end like chary, opam, orom, okam (interestingly some of these in front of line cuts by plants), but I need to look at that in more detail to say something.
However, the line start words seem very convincing for me. Also this words do not include the paragraph words, so they are not at the start of a paragraph. Also other have found similar patterns bevor You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
How can that be explained? Is every line the start of a new sentence? But how to fill the line that you have such a smooth ending? Or does the text maybe contain filler words at the start and the end? Or words that starts the coding of a line?
What are your thoughts and ideas about that?
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| Analysis of Voynich Average Cross-Entropy Loss |
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Posted by: Trithemius - 04-11-2025, 10:38 PM - Forum: Analysis of the text
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Hey everyone,
I'm new to the forum, so I'm posting some of my findings here in a bit of a data-dump, sorry about that.
Here's the experiment:
1. I looked at the word-length frequency and character-frequency of the Voynich and created a random corpus of equal length which has the same word length and character frequency histograms, but are effectively random. So, an exerpt of my random Voynich simulant looks like this:
whereas, as we all know, real Voynich looks like this
My random Voynich simulant has the same word length frequency and same character frequency as the real Voynich, but it's gibberish.
As a control, I used the latin bible for comparison. Here's my random biblical latin simulant excerpt
…snfeluvu tddr eeee nuqnc tt osiem ili clac udieouenl eaula tnmeu…
and here's real latin
...in principio creavit Deus caelum et terram terra autem erat…
2. Then, I trained an LSTM on the random corpora (both in the control and voynich cases). This LSTM therefore learned to predict the character and word length frequency that we see in the actual Voynich (or bible in the control case).
3. Then, I exposed the model to the actual Voynich and did a continuous character-by-character plotting of the degree to which the model was surprised by the next word it saw after being trained on randomness. So, the higher the orange line, the higher the apparent order in the text.
Here's the bibical control
And here's the Voynich
Interestingly, they both share comparable levels of order relative to their random controls. In the Voynich case, there are pretty clear spikes in orderedness around f57, which is not surprising as that concentric-circle diagram has the same sequence repeated 4 times on the 3rd ring from the inside.
I'd be curious to hear anyone's thoughts on this or if there are any other ideas for experiments like this.
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| The c9-derived suffix |
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Posted by: Trithemius - 04-11-2025, 06:47 PM - Forum: Analysis of the text
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Hello Voynich Ninja forum,
First time poster and just joined the forum. I've been interested in the Voynich for a while now and wanted to run a little something by the group here to see if anyone else has noticed it as well.
I was looking at the character "9", which I'm sure we all know occurs at the end of a word like ~88% of the time we see it in the text.
Then I started looking at bigram suffixes ending in 9 and found this--
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Which shows that, obviously 89 is a super common word ending (44% of 9-ending words are 89).
Then, looking at the second most common, c9, I noticed that the same c9 pattern appears in many of the next most common 9-ending suffixes
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c9, C9, 19, D9, H9, K9 and so on. So, really, we might think of the true distribution of 9-ending suffixes to be something like this--
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Curious what the general sense is about the 9 character is around here, like whether it likely has a distinct phonological value or if its merely some orthographically fixed spelling convention.
Sorry if this is really basic/already explored.
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| A noob needs help: A lot of questions |
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Posted by: Kaybo - 02-11-2025, 03:00 PM - Forum: Voynich Talk
- Replies (7)
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I have a lot of questions and I try to read to all of the things here. But maybe someone could help me with one or the other question I have. (If this is the wrong sub, please move it, I do not use Ask an Expert because I though that were more questions to experts in a specific field, like botanic)
1. Has anyone analyzed the vertical letters in You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. ? If you look at it, then its a typical schema for astrological tables and the days of the week. Like a-f, then there is a paragraph sign and it repeats. If you kick out the paragraph signs you get 23 letters, which would be an alphabet. Other letters are introduced in You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. which also introduce the cz (ch) and the aiin symbol. Which could be a combination of letters and phonemes. Are there any ideas about that already?
2. On You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. there are words beside 2 or 3 characters. Anyone looked for this words in the text? Or in You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. ? What about the words in You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. and the zodiac signs? Did we see them often in the text?
3. The zodiac signs. Anyone has seen circle diagrams with zodiac signs in the middle elsewhere? Can the words under the signs be translated or matched to known letters?
4. Anyone has links to other foldouts at that time or a little bit later?
5. And of course I need any information that links the manuscript to Portugal (Spain) Iberian.
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| Translation vs. Interpretation – The Fundamental Mistake About the Voynich |
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Posted by: ZamnaMx - 02-11-2025, 01:14 PM - Forum: Voynich Talk
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After reading many so-called “translations” and discussions about the Voynich, I can say with certainty that with that approach they will never be able to translate it.
From the start, they are not even trying to translate — they are trying to interpret.
Interpreting isolated pages, words, or images will never lead to the creation of a Rosetta table, and without such a table, translation is impossible.
Translate from what? Into what? From which language?
Almost every discussion begins with alphabetic assumptions, but the truth is that the Voynich is not an alphabetic text.
These are western perspectives — all of them using hammers when what was needed was a precision instrument.
Because that instrument, that “Rosetta table,” doesn’t exist, the first task was to reconstruct it.
Another major problem I’ve noticed is that people are trying to translate the manuscript using modern patterns of thought and expression, which is absurd.
The key is not to think like a modern person, but to think as the authors themselves thought — to understand how they spoke and how they wrote.
Trying to decode it while thinking in English, using English words and modern alphabetic grammar, was never going to work.
That’s why, even after 10, 20, or 30 years, there has been no real progress — because all those approaches are fundamentally wrong.
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Statistical Proof of Rule-Governed Morphology in the Voynich Manuscript |
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Posted by: Fengist - 02-11-2025, 12:19 AM - Forum: The Slop Bucket
- Replies (17)
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Since some think this is already some joke or AI trash, I ask one thing. My preprint is in review on Zenodo. Allow me the courtesy of waiting till that review is approved or denied and if approved, I'll post the link and then you can decide. If denied, you can move this to GPT Garbage and I'll shut my mouth.
After a full-scale computational analysis of the Voynich text using the public EVA transcription by Stolfi (via voynich.nu), I can now demonstrate that Voynichese is not random, not a hoax, and not a cipher — it is a language system with measurable grammar. Over eighty thousand tokens were segmented into morphemes using unsupervised boundary tests, yielding roughly 4,700 unique roots and affixes. These distribute into a strict four-slot sequence (prefix → root → stem → postfix), consistent across herbal, astronomical, and recipe sections.
The key finding: every valid word form obeys the same internal rule chain. When slot transitions are multiplied (0.540 × 0.463 × 0.320), the product equals 0.080 — an exact match to the 8.0 % rate of grammatically complete words observed in the corpus (95 % CI = 0.078–0.082). Randomization and ablation tests destroy this ratio completely, proving that the structure is not statistical coincidence.
Conditional entropy, KL divergence, and HMM syntax modeling all converge on the same conclusion: Voynichese exhibits predictive, rule-based morphology indistinguishable from natural-language behavior. The effect persists through control tests and holds across all sections of the manuscript.
Cross-section generalization (no randomization): a simple next-token model trained on the herbal section achieves ≈ 50 % top-1 accuracy on held-out astronomical and recipe lines, versus ≈ 29 % for a unigram baseline — evidence of genuine structural consistency.
Finally, position-based modeling shows that the grammar itself is spatially ordered: the relative probabilities of form-classes change smoothly with token position in each line, producing left-to-right grammatical zones that collapse to noise under randomization.
All work is reproducible using public data; raw statistics and code are privately archived for academic release. I’m seeking collaborators with linguistic expertise to help formalize and publish the results.
Forgive me if I have posted this in the wrong place — this is my first post here. And if you wish to comment, reply, or contact me, feel free. However, I’m not a linguist — I’m a truck driver. Consider your vocabulary accordingly.
Reference:
Data derived from the public EVA interlinear transcription archive by Jorge Stolfi, accessed via Volker Tamagothi’s extractor interface (You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.).
Figure 1 - Voynichese Patterns Align with Natural Language, Not Random Text.
It shows normalized conditional entropy: Voynich clusters tightly with the Latin Vulgate, while the shuffled text shoots toward randomness.
Figure 2 - Token-length histogram (log-normal decay). Word-length stability across the corpus matches natural-language distributions, confirming internally consistent morphology.
Figure 3 - Voynich transition probability matrices. The structured corpus (left) shows coherent token-to-token dependencies absent in the randomized control (right), demonstrating non-random grammatical behavior.
Figure 4 - Position-Dependent Grammatical Structure in Voynichese. The relative probabilities of four anonymous form-classes shift smoothly with token position, forming stable left-to-right grammatical zones throughout the manuscript. In randomized controls these gradients vanish, confirming positional syntax and rule-governed word formation unique to genuine language systems.
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