Hi everyone,
Looking at 82r the other day, I noticed a line I hadn't seen before:
The reason this grabbed my attention is because this line seems to be some remnant of a former plan for the page, which would have been erased. Could the vertical line originally have been through the whole page?
Interestingly, at the top of the page there are two "arches", and if we consider all these elements together, I wonder if the original plan for the page may have been a two column text, nestled under two arches, as can be seen in many medieval manuscripts' layout. (the following is just a lazy grab from a quick Google search, I'm not trying to say it matches this one, but just to give an illustration of the type of layout I'm referring to): Glasgow MS Hunter 475, 12th C Sicily, 21v-22r.
I'm curious to know what others think: Could this page have been meant to be designed differently? Could the creator of the Voynich have betrayed the fact that this page was inspired by a manuscript where the layout was in a two-column format with arches at the top?
Posted by: stellar - 15-03-2017, 06:22 AM - Forum: News
- No Replies
24:15 minutes into the show (Voynich Stellar talking)
1:50:38 into the show Nibiru, Apophis and Voynich Stellar Talking
I was interviewed on the Paranormal.chat, my interview begins 1:50:38 with George Senda about Nibiru, Apophis and the Voynich Manuscript ! I believe I will be interviewed again regarding the Voynich Manuscript.
Thank you to all at Paranormal.chat
And if you wish to be interviewed go to LiveShow 99 *** on skype
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. I don't know when the next show is?
Just as a Chinese manuscript is clearly the product of the Chinese culture, the VMs is just as clearly not a randomly surviving artifact of Culture V*. The VMs has put on an authentic appearance and would certainly seem to be a plausible artifact of an unknown origin from the time of its creation and it would retain that appearance long afterwards. But if we want to investigate the VMs and to pin it down with facts, then a decision needs to be made about the existence of Culture V*. So the modern point of view contradicts and negates the existence of Culture V*. And thus cut off from genuine cultural origins, the VMs is revealed as an impostor, a pretender and a dissimulator. It appears to be a thing that is genuine, but it is not.
So what is the purpose of the VMs, if it is all nonsense? But the VMs is something else. It is a masquerade. The VMs is a puzzle. The VMs is a facade behind which something else is hidden. And it is difficult to hide something of a sheet of parchment and still maintain the original identity. The author, as a great dissimulator, separates the illustration of the Oresme cosmos into two parts, leaves a big clue and still maintains a connection with the original through the similarity of detail - through what has been and continues to be an unrecognized level of similar detail.
Simply by separating the cosmos into two parts, the author has confounded countless investigators. The level of detail in the VMs is such that the text contains a sophisticated use of canting based on traditional heraldic designs, that have all but evaded any modern detection. Just ask about papelonny. Knowing the name and the pattern are among the essential details needed to understand how the hidden parts work. But the availability of such detailed information was probably better disseminated among the heralds of yore (if you will) than it is among any group today. The VMs author knew the details, the scallop-shell patterned cloud band for example; things that we do not know. And this is nothing to do with obscure or arcane knowledge. These are the the details of commonplace historical and scientific facts from the relevant times, and while the basic facts have been given a simple disguise, the examination and comparison of detail, once it is known which details to examine, show strong similarities in pattern, form, number, placement and structure with the original and traditional examples. And yet, at the same time, the VMs is clearly something that is not straight forward in an expositive sense. There is no Culture V*.
I stumbled on the You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. by art historian Jessica Savage discussing zodiacal Cancer and "lobster-like" crabs.
J.K.Petersen's Voynich Portal is quoted. Cool
Thread split, discussion for identifying this plant can go here - KG
(09-03-2017, 09:59 AM)MarcoP Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
(09-03-2017, 08:32 AM)ReneZ Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.The illustration on You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. allows an interesting comparison with an image in one of the Wellcome copies of the "Buch der heiligen Dreifaltigkeit": WMS 164. (Apologies if I mentioned this before).
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On the left is a 'sun plant' and on the right a 'moon plant'.
Especially the moon plant has a decent superficial similarity with the Voynich MS plant.
A dragons and some snakes also play a role here....
Thank you, Rene!
The plant on the right in You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. indeed has some similarity with this specific "Lunaria".
It's also interesting to see how common color annotations are in XV Century manuscripts. It is something I wasn't aware of, before reading your comments on the subject...
I don't think the VMS plant on the right is Lunaria (either the real Lunaria or the mythical one).
In medieval manuscripts, mythical Lunaria is almost always drawn with a central stalk with the moon- (luna-)shaped leaves running up each side. The ones that follow the myth most closely will often have one "leaf" for each day of the moon's phase.
Teasel has upturned leaves that are often depicted like "cups" and in real life the leaves of cut-leaved teasel do look like cups and catch moisture.
But note that the VMS plant is a plant with branching stems, in contrast to Lunaria (right). It's not a central stalk with moons up along the side. Teasel also has fairly substantial roots. The similarity of the VMS plant to the sample Lunaria pic is superficial if you look at the stalks and the flower-heads. I don't think teasel is the only possible ID. I know a couple of other plants that could qualify, but I think it's the most likely one. Here are some examples:
As part of the Oresme challenge, here is the question. Can we put Oresme's cosmos back together again, using VMs parts?
We need to understand the details. How well do we know the relevant details?
Can we describe or represent:
1) the structure of Oresme's cosmos and the pattern of the cloud band?
2) the pattern on the armorial insignia of the pope who started the tradition of the cardinals' red galero?
3) the traditional patterns of the heraldic furs?
Do we understand heraldic canting?
These are things that might be seen as much more familiar to a time long passed. These are things that, under certain historical conditions, may have been taken as potentially common knowledge in certain groups. There is nothing particular unusual about this information. And only the first question might be somewhat restricted, though there are a number of years of historical separation.
The VMs answers these questions. The VMs author knows the answers in illustrated detail. The line encompassing the cosmos (f68v) is a nebuly line. It matches the Oresme illustration in basic structure. The VMs corresponds with the historical examples in numerous details, but we have lost much knowledge of relevant detail from the time of VMs creation.
I promised to do this already a few days ago, but couldn't find time for it. Sorry!
So here is a list of all line-initial words in the VMS. It's taken from the Takahashi transcription (I haven't checked the accuracy of anything, so there are probably some errors), excluding single-word "lines", most of which are actually labels.
From left to right, the columns are:
- the word type
- number of line-initial occurrences
- number of all occurrences
- proportion of occurrences which are line-initial
There are in total 1958 word types, including:
- 1000 unique ones
- 114 others that occur only line-initially
- 844 that are not exclusively line-initial
I think that on page f102v2 there is a cryptozoological animal called Tatzelvurm. Snake in the right upper corner.
Clearly visible are the eyes drawn in ink. Similarly, the eyes are drawn on other drawings MV.[font=Arial, sans-serif]
ТАТЦЕЛЬВУРМ.jpg (Size: 93.26 KB / Downloads: 58)
[/font]
The subject of “flat-top roots” was previously discussed in You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view..
The point is that there are cases in which the roots are represented with a “flat top”, as if they had been horizontally cut, with the stem or stems of the plant rigidly ticking out of this flat surface.
This can be seen, for instance, in f36r You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. posted an extensive list of roots of this kind (links to the scans added by myself):
(27-01-2016, 04:06 AM)Oocephalus Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.... in many plants, the stem is separated from the root by a horizontal line. This occurs in "grafted" plants, where the stem is placed on a much thicker root that appears to have been cut off (but not in all of them), but also in ones where the stem and the root have the same thickness. With one exception, this only appears in plants where the text is Currier A.
The following pages have "grafted" plants with such lines: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view., You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view., You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view., You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view., You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view., You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view., You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view., You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view., You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view., You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view., You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view., You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view., You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view., You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view., You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view., You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view., You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view., You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. (?), You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view., You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view., You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view., You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view..
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. pointed out the online link to some illustrations from Florence, Biblioteca Laurenziana, Ashb. 731, XV Century.
The illustration from You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. is particularly relevant. It represent Master Aloysius from Palermo standing next to a flowering plant with a “flat top root”.
As far as I remember, this is the closer parallel I have seen to some of the peculiar roots in the VMS.
These are my tentative transcription and translation of the Latin inscription in the Florence ms:
“Magister aloisius erbolarius et medicus depalermo
Ista erba vocatu[r] jusclamor quod dicitur panem malu[m] ter[r]e et valet co[n]tra adolore[m] capitis et g[?] esplena”
Master Aloysius herbalist and physician from Palermo
This plant is called “jusclamor” also said “bad earth bread” and is helpful against headaches and [...]”
While I am very uncertain about the end of the second sentence, it seems clear that the illustrated plant is cyclamen (jusclamor) which was commonly known as You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view..
For comparison, I attach on the right the illustration of Cyclamen fromYou are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. (XI Century).
I hope that others will suggest other illustrations featuring similar roots.
I just read for the first time that there is a parallel between You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. and a small-plant drawing, as mentioned by Rene here:
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This could be interesting for a whole range of reasons, so I wondered if any IDs have been proposed for the You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. plant. Or does anyone have any other ideas?
![[Image: image.jpg?q=f82r-480-1732-243-212]](https://voynich.ninja/extractor/image.jpg?q=f82r-480-1732-243-212)
![[Image: H475_canontables.jpg]](http://special.lib.gla.ac.uk/images/exhibitions/month/H475/H475_canontables.jpg)
Glasgow MS Hunter 475, 12th C Sicily, 21v-22r.
![[Image: smiley.gif]](http://bellgab.com/Smileys/default/smiley.gif)
![[Image: TeaselVMS.png]](http://voynichportal.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/TeaselVMS.png)
![[Image: 370699053caa1ed651771563b534bd03.jpg]](https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/37/06/99/370699053caa1ed651771563b534bd03.jpg)
![[Image: image.jpg?q=f48v-435-1301-671-569]](https://voynich.ninja/extractor/image.jpg?q=f48v-435-1301-671-569)
![[Image: image.jpg?q=f48v-842-262-241-253]](https://voynich.ninja/extractor/image.jpg?q=f48v-842-262-241-253)