Princeton University quoting JKP

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Princeton University quoting JKP - MarcoP - 11-03-2017

I stumbled on the You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. by art historian Jessica Savage discussing zodiacal Cancer and "lobster-like" crabs.
J.K.Petersen's Voynich Portal is quoted. Cool Smile

RE: Princeton University quoting JKP - Koen G - 11-03-2017

Haha awesome.

Quote:Petersen reads the Voynich crayfish as anatomically incorrect

RE: Princeton University quoting JKP - VViews - 11-03-2017

Very cool!
Smile

RE: Princeton University quoting JKP - stellar - 11-03-2017

It's not cool and JKP lacks insight into the voynich or he would have translated it by now, he is hyper critical of my theory when he is wrong, but I have a right to my opinion here!

Quote:J. K. Petersen makes interesting points about the Cancerian crayfish in the 15th century Voynich Manuscript. Petersen reads the Voynich crayfish as anatomically incorrect, with legs attached to tail, suggesting that the artist had been working from traditional representations rather than from life. This idea supports the theory that crayfish were so common in medieval astrological culture that the critters were simply represented from memory!

Quote: all signifying Crab, or Lobster, although more usual, and perhaps more correct, for You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.. Festus, the grammarian of the 3d century, said that this was an African word equivalent to Sidus, a Constellation or Star.
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RE: Princeton University quoting JKP - Linda - 12-03-2017

who says they are lobsters?

not saying they are krill, but just for instance...

[Image: krill-diagram.jpg]

RE: Princeton University quoting JKP - stellar - 12-03-2017

(12-03-2017, 12:41 AM)Linda Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.who says they are lobsters?

not saying they are krill, but just for instance...

It's obvious Linda those two little lobsters are in the voynich for the Cancer Astrology section!

RE: Princeton University quoting JKP - -JKP- - 12-03-2017

(12-03-2017, 01:36 AM)stellar Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
(12-03-2017, 12:41 AM)Linda Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.who says they are lobsters?

not saying they are krill, but just for instance...

It's obvious Linda those two little lobsters are in the voynich for the Cancer Astrology section!

Stellar, do you know what a crayfish is (and how many different species there are)? Crayfish also turn red when they are cooked. And by the way, most of the time when I talk about this image, I call it crayfish/lobster (you can look back on the forum and see that I usually mention both) because the drawing is not accurate enough to know which one it is, but if you notice the two "cee" shapes on the back (the cervical groove)—this feature is usually more distinct on crayfish than on lobsters.

Something I have noticed is that MOST of the zodiacs from the south, especially around the Mediterranean (and some from the coasts of France and England) depict Cancer as a crab, and a large percentage of zodiacs from inland and mountain areas depict Pisces as a crayfish. Since crabs are saltwater and crayfish are freshwater, this is not surprising. The illustrators that live near salt water may be choosing a crab over a lobster because they are familiar with both and the name of the Constellation is "Cancre/Cancer/Krebs/Crab".

Out of 442 zodiac cycles, 250 used crayfish/lobsters rather than crabs and those depicted in landscapes (like many of the French zodiacs), often were drawn in rivers (which are fresh water, and thus crayfish).

I do not know whether the VMS illustrator drew the crayfish from exemplars or from life but I guessed that it may be drawn from memory (of a picture or of a real crayfish) due to the unconventional placing of the legs. If you were copying directly, it's unlikely you would make this mistake. If it's not deliberate, then it is either a sign of something a little skewed in the illustrator's perception (or in the illustrator's understanding of anatomy), or... it's a deliberate anomaly. If it's deliberate, it's pretty cryptic. I can't think of a single thing it might signify to shift the legs in such an unusual way.

And it doesn't matter whether it's lobster or crayfish, the diagram is not detailed enough to distinguish the difference, either way it is anatomically incorrect—the VMS legs are coming out of the tail rather than the mid-body and even though I searched diligently for examples of it being drawn this way, and collected 250 of the crayfish variety, mostly from zodiac wheels, I have never found another crayfish or lobster drawn with the legs coming out of the tail.

I haven't been able to find any other reasonably competent drawings of crayfish/lobsters with legs coming out of the tail, even after a pretty diligent search. Unless someone else comes across one, the VMS appears to be unique in this way.

RE: Princeton University quoting JKP - -JKP- - 12-03-2017

(12-03-2017, 12:41 AM)Linda Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.who says they are lobsters?

not saying they are krill, but just for instance...

Hi, Linda, I actually think krill is an interesting idea, but I'm reluctant to identify the VMS crayfish as krill because krill don't have claws or flared tails (the tails are feathery and narrow), and they tend to curl like shrimp and have the legs underneath (not very visible in an aerial view).

I still like the suggestion because I haven't seen it mentioned elsewhere and it has the potential to explain the strange placement of the legs, and it's always a good idea to look a bit farther afield, even if one ends up back at the beginning.

RE: Princeton University quoting JKP - -JKP- - 12-03-2017

(11-03-2017, 11:33 PM)stellar Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.It's not cool and JKP lacks insight into the voynich or he would have translated it by now, he is hyper critical of my theory when he is wrong, but I have a right to my opinion here!

I have never denied your right to an opinion. I have not been hypercritical either. I've been rather patient, actually, and have only criticized your methods and assumptions, which is a perfectly reasonable thing to do considering that you base secondary assumptions on unproven primary assumptions.
Also, I am not looking for a "quick" translation. I'm looking for a good one.

RE: Princeton University quoting JKP - Koen G - 12-03-2017

Stellar you shouldn't take it personal when people criticize your theory. That's what this forum is for, to exchange ideas and weigh their merit and explanatory power. And point out any problems.

Your theory has zero explanatory power and zero chance of helping us in any way because you propose a one way cipher and those can't be read. Your attempts at reading them are a mere word game.

Now please stop dragging your theory into every thread or we will have to start issuing warnings for off topic again. If you think you have anything wothwile to tell, feel free to make a (one!) thread about it.